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Audio: Begging & Chasing Women

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Is there any non-romantic context where these two behavior traits are good? If not, why discuss them only in the context of romance? For example, I don't think these traits work in the context of business or friendships, either.

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JASKN: I can't think of any situtaion in which begging or chasing another person could be considered a positive thing. However, this issue is particularly relevant in the area of romance, and poses a special problem for men for a number of reasons.

There are countless instances in popular media, in which a man begging a woman is portrayed as endearing, and even romantic.

Also, some people — even some Objectivists — will explicitly counsel men to "chase" women in exactly the way I discuss in the clip. They claim (or imply) that this is what a masculine man does. I want to offer some counterbalance to what I consider to be a dangerously fallacious idea.

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In some Christian sects also (well, at least from my own childhood) it is taught to place women on a pedestal, explicitly. Ironically, it is also taught that the man is the "head of the household," and he's supposed to boss a woman around. A mess occurs when the woman takes full advantage of this situation, and manipulates the man into doing whatever she wants. Or, when the woman is too timid and the man gets abusive.

I wonder how much of this begging has to do with the male sex drive being stronger than the female sex drive.

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Also, some people — even some Objectivists — will explicitly counsel men to "chase" women in exactly the way I discuss in the clip. They claim (or imply) that this is what a masculine man does. I want to offer some counterbalance to what I consider to be a dangerously fallacious idea.

Are you reffering to my posts on the matter? If so, chasing isn't quite what i'm advocating.

I'm saying you should "go the distance". It means being a good ender and putting an end to the "chase"(it's not really a chase if she just rejects you).

An analogy that comes to mind is when I worked as a salesman. We had a really good product, and for the kind of service we provided there was just one competitor with a similar product - with a different target customer. For our target customers we had a great product.

At first I expected people to be just all over it, but no... Some were, but most of the time there was some sort of resistance. A lot of people get defensive when they talk to salesmen, others are just polite but not really interested, a few try to waste your time because for some reason the really dislike you. Lots of walls that need to be breached.

In order to succeed you need to close. That's what's most important. Close, close, close. It's not just about closing a deal, but equally important to end your dealings in a good way.

What it means in practice is that you end it in a good, polite, way where the potential customer has no other choice but to give you a straight 'yes' or 'no'. It means taking control so you don't waste potential deals, while not wasting your time with someone who's never going to buy.

To do that takes practice and skill. You don't want to be passive-agressive, rude or otherwise abrasive. Those people are the ones that give other salesmen a bad reputation. But, if you're too nice you're never going to close other deals than the ones where there's no resistance. That doesn't happen very often, so you're missing a lot of good deals.

There are many similarities between this and pursuing women. This is not to say you should make a good sales pitch in order to get women. But, a lot of women have their walls up in order to protect themselves against bad guys. Most of them have been hurt, lied to and dissappointed before. Even if you seem like the real deal they're going to test you to determine if it's just a shiny surface, or if you hold up to scrutiny. For that reason, persistance pays off if you're a good guy. However, not in the sense of an endless pursuit, where you'll just end of pestering her. You need to close.

So, if you're a good guy - a real catch - start acting like it. Show her what you want. It could mean getting her number, kissing her or getting her in bed. Depends on the context of course. It could also mean you cut the crap, and the bottom line is 'yes' or 'no'. Simply put: "Here's what I want. Take it or leave it".

I can give you a few concrete examples:

You're asking a girl for date:

"Lets have lunch on wednesday. XX-place at 12 o'clock"

"Gosh, I can't - i'm too busy"

"That's cool, I understand you're busy, but I want to have lunch with you. Check you're schedule and i'll get back to you next week"

Still no room in her schedule and no alternative suggestions? Drop her. Otherwise, great - you have a date.

Trying to get the girls number:

"You seem like an interesting person, i'd like to get you know you better. Here, give me your number"

"I don't want to be rude, but I can't..."

"You're not rude..."

"Naawww!"

"Are you married?"

"No..."

"Do you have a boyfriend?"

"No..."

"Great, here - give me your number. It'll be the bestest coffee/lunch/dinner/gocart date you'll ever had!"

Still not relenting? Give it up. Otherwise, great success!

Not answering your texts or calls?

"I'm doing X/Y/Z on saturday and i'd like you to join me. Be there or be square." (note: It's always good to show up with a concrete plan. Intead of "maybe we could..." you've already got it figured out - she just has to worry about wether to follow along or not).

Still no answer? Delete her number. "Sorry, you're a nice guy but...". Drop her. She's on? Great success!

That same philosophy can be applied to situations where she's not giving you any trouble.

Quite often when women are dealing with clueless guys they're, metaphorically, holding up big neon signs saying "take me already!". I agree with Kevin that when a woman is really into you she will go to great lengths to get you. However, she will rarely do so directly. Something that frustrates both women and men. The men are thinking "what the bleep does she want!?" while the women are thinking "why the bleep isn't he doing anything!?".

The sollution is simply to close. Ask her out, kiss her or bed her. Whatever is the most approriate for the situation. In those situations she's probably communicated interest in a million ways, while the man is oblivious to it. Or, in some case, too afraid to act. In such events, put everything on the line and just do it.

Edited by Alfa
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