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Self-generated goal oriented action is metaphysical, is productiveness

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tadmjones
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Poetically I agree.

I guess my question is, can virtues be described as metaphysical or are they delineated by their nature as abstractions of human action as such. Are they are in fact some kind of Kantian imperatives , to exist as man qua man, or what ?

Edited by tadmjones
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Poetically I agree.

I guess my question is, can virtues be described as metaphysical or are they delineated by their nature as abstractions of human action as such. Are they are in fact some kind of Kantian imperatives , to exist as man qua man, or what ?

That lofty intellectual question is for bigger minds than mine. I honestly don't know as I'm an uneducated blue collar tradesman. But I do revel in the real world creativity of business. It's a blank canvas on which you can paint any beautiful moral picture you choose. If I were to name that beauty in words I think that it would be gratitude and goodwill. Expressing moral beauty is an absolute necessity for a man to exist as a man, and not just a male.

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I don't know if life is metaphysical. In fact I'm not even clear as to what the statement means, though some possiblities come to mind. What do you mean by "life"? What do you mean by "metaphysical"?

Edited by Reidy
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Poetically I agree.

I guess my question is, can virtues be described as metaphysical or are they delineated by their nature as abstractions of human action as such. Are they are in fact some kind of Kantian imperatives , to exist as man qua man, or what ?

I think that a virtue can be thought of as a positive attribute gained by a pattern of actions. You make a certain kind of choice consistently to the point where it becomes part of your character. It is a habit gained in the pursuit of excellence. So if you choose to be honest enough, it may be hard, after while though, you will notice an inclination towards honesty. So much to the point where you are actually uncomfortable with lying at all. Your psychology will be changed by this.

Vritues are not "metaphysical". A virtue is a quality that allows man to survive and thrive in our world in a long term way. They are ethical and psychological concepts.

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I don't know if life is metaphysical. In fact I'm not even clear as to what the statement means, though some possiblities come to mind. What do you mean by "life"? What do you mean by "metaphysical"?

By life I meant self-generated, self-sustaining action; the difference between animate and inanimate matter.

And by metaphysical I mean that which is given, those things in the universe that just 'are'.

It is a topic I have been pondering , although I think I am having a hard time articulating exactly what I mean to ask.

As to the what I meant about capitalism, it was more along the lines that self-generated and self-sustaining actions require a kind of economy of energy, ie rabbits would not be if they expended more caloric energy finding and eating carrots than the amount of caloric energy they receive from the eating of carrots. The same would apply to human action, capitalism is based on economy of action, capital is the wealth created by man beyond sustanance.

Although I must admit that at the time of the original post, my thinking may have been lets say heightened by holiday merriment and libation, perhaps keyboards should have breathalizers;)

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As to the what I meant about capitalism, it was more along the lines that self-generated and self-sustaining actions require a kind of economy of energy, ie rabbits would not be if they expended more caloric energy finding and eating carrots than the amount of caloric energy they receive from the eating of carrots. The same would apply to human action, capitalism is based on economy of action, capital is the wealth created by man beyond sustanance.

I know God exists and so have no problem with the unlimited self generating self sustaining wealth producing quaity of Capitalism, because it is a sturdy sound system based on moral law. Anyone who does what is morally right will succeed in business, because good people will seek them out and eagerly engage in equitable value for value exchanges for the benefit of all parties involved.

Putting your your time energy and talents to work to create value is not a zero sum game. Prospering does not make others poor. By helping others to prosper, you prosper. Capitalism is a win/win situation. It literally brings Heaven to Earth, and was the reason why America used to be an exceptional nation. But this nation is now in its decline and circling the drain from having abandoned the decent ethical values of Capitalism for the something-for-nothing Ponzi scam of Creditism where everyone expects someone else to pay their bills. This used to be something for which people used to be ashamed. Now they are actually proud of it.

Edited by moralist
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Figuring out what life is (e.g. the definition you quote in #7) and how it fits into the material world is a job for metaphysics. This doesn't mean that any inquiry that makes use of this is also metaphysical. You would invoke physics to explain how to design a car and how to handle it properly, and the designer (if not the driver) is explicitly aware of this. That doesn't mean that car design is a branch of physics (it's an application) or that a driver is a physicist or that the same person is a molecular biologist when he eats or exercises.

Economics or political philosophy likewise make use of metaphysical discoveries, but they are way down the application chain. "Capitalism is naturally appropriate" is thus a better way of putting the point than "capitalism is metaphysical."

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Figuring out what life is (e.g. the definition you quote in #7) and how it fits into the material world is a job for metaphysics. This doesn't mean that any inquiry that makes use of this is also metaphysical. You would invoke physics to explain how to design a car and how to handle it properly, and the designer (if not the driver) is explicitly aware of this. That doesn't mean that car design is a branch of physics (it's an application) or that a driver is a physicist or that the same person is a molecular biologist when he eats or exercises.

Economics or political philosophy likewise make use of metaphysical discoveries, but they are way down the application chain. "Capitalism is naturally appropriate" is thus a better way of putting the point than "capitalism is metaphysical."

Thanks, that does sound closer to what I meant to express. I should have been specific and pointed to the idea of productiveness as such, not use the term capitalism which is seen as a more formal societal description.

I was trying to find a better argument to counter those who debate the merits of say socialism vs nationalism vs capitalism ect, as if one need only pick one and go with it, as opposed to recognizing why only one(capitalism) is appropriate.

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I was trying to find a better argument to counter those who debate the merits of say socialism vs nationalism vs capitalism ect, as if one need only pick one and go with it, as opposed to recognizing why only one(capitalism) is appropriate.

There is no better argument than the actual results of each ideology. Capitalism is currently geting roundly damned because people condemn what appear to be its consequences when they are actually the result of a system which is not based upon capital at all... but system based upon debt.

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You will not be able to come up with a metaphysical fact for Capitalism. Metaphysics looks at what is. Something that is metaphysical simple is, as in existence or identity. About as close you can get is the nature of man.

What you CAN do is integrate the links from metaphysical facts to Capitalism. Capitalism is politics which is the social application of ethics. Ethics are principles man learns to guide his life since he needs to make choices (has volition), is rational (can differentiate and integrate information), and needs to live (self-generated action). Ethics combines those so man can live according to his nature. The nature of man is where you get into metaphysical facts, including corollaries like volition, reason, the fact you exist and are conscious doing so to identify your nature as a human being, etc.

That should get you to the right place.

I might suggest that what you are really trying to do is not come up with an all-encompassing “metaphysical truism” that you can use to explain Capitalism to others or in a debate. If that is so then what you really should do is break Capitalism down to essentials and make principles out of those essentials. For example: The right to thrive free from coercion. You will still need to argue and explain them but with good essentials you will force an opponent to argue on your terms and ultimately reveal his essentials. This also works well in reverse I might add: Government Regulation – Force destroys value (not mine).

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