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Yaron Brook Debates in Isreal

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Not right now. They just debate Capitalism versus socialism. Yaron Brook brings this discussion to deep philosophical level. The main question he asks " Who owns your life and what are the basic requirement of man's existence?" You can guess his answer.

Edited by Leonid
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  • 4 months later...

I live in Israel and heard this debate. Yaron defends Capitalism and freedom as his Oppoment Yossi Yona defends Socialism and collectivism with underlining egalatriansm and cummonism. 

In Israel the ideas held by Yarons oppoment are very comon and held bt people with poltical power. That man needs to serve his fellow man and society, in Israel you must serve 3 years in the army and a month of reserve. It is belived that markets should be regualted and that big busness crushed the small man as a result. A lot of cummonist ethics going from youth movments and school the largest youth movement held a picture of Stalin in thier dinning hall. Almost all busness people belive that connections and not abilty lead to sucsess.
Simply his oppoments argues the morality of death while Yaron the morality of life. Thats a great reason to shrug.

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Welcome to the forum.

In Israel the ideas held by Yarons oppoment are very comon and held bt people with poltical power.

These ideas are pretty universal. In most democracies, the ruling elites and most of the population believe in statism and believe that the government should take from the rich and give to the poor. The differences across countries tend to be about how much one should redistribute, and how, not on the (false) principle that it is a good thing.
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HandlyHandle
​the largest(at their time) was the Shomer Ha'Tzair which means in literal translation the young protector. For my knowledge they were mostly in Kibutzes (Kibutz is a collective village governed by communistic political principles) and in some cities. The dinning hall was as "theirs" that can be in a society with above minimal property rights.  This was from the early 50's to the mid 70's. I know this from some anecdotal records of people that lived and participated in the group and historic records i was exposed to. 
The group is a youth movement (which even today are popular in Israel) they consist of ideologists of Zionist-Communist such as Vitkin and Jabotensky. Equal emphasis on Zionist and Communist for both of them are crucial to the political ideal. the Ideology was a state of Jews that would transcend the oppressive capitalist elitism and class-war in a new Jewish state. They did build Israel from the ground up and claim so proudly what they do not shout in as much bravado is that ALL the materials to build Israel was donated or supplied directly by Jewish capitalist in America and Western Europe (Baron Rothschild as the most famous). 
Today they see themselves as for a Social-Democratic society while holding the exact same ideological convictions. 
Most of their members are young people who could not care less about ideology rather then feel-good group actives (which is a way to convince collectivism) chasing the opposite sex and with an incredibly shallow understanding of ideological principles starting and ending in with empty bromides. 
These group, or more correctly the lack of people that are independent of such groups, made my childhood here very lonely and unpleasant at best.

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Welcome to the forum.These ideas are pretty universal. In most democracies, the ruling elites and most of the population believe in statism and believe that the government should take from the rich and give to the poor. The differences across countries tend to be about how much one should redistribute, and i, not on the (false) principle that it is a good thing.

Thank you for your warm welcome. 

i know most democracies hold these ideas but in Israel its much worse. no democratic country has been influenced by Communism as much as Israel. on one side there are the leftist socialist and on the other religious rightist. Its only a contrast of Juadastic religious zeal altruism and socialist-Marxist altruism where the secular right lip services "freer markets" so the millatry could claim it in time of need (or on whim) and an Palestinian Islam totalitarianism. a 4 way selection of Statism. 

the worse part is the consensuses that man owes his life (and property) to the military. Granted Israel is in a constant state of threat of its neighbors it  does not mean that is in constant existential danger and that there is no time for the individual to live freely. in truth everyone believes that the country is there so you would be enslaved by a master that is of your own race rather than live freely and fight for a country that protects you. 

the biggest argument that Jews need to live in Israel is that it is the safest place for them to live. This ironic as the safest place for Jews was and will always will be the United States that supports Israel. There might have been some violence against Jews in America but it is nothing compared to the existential threat imposed by Muslim terrorist and Arab nations. The argument that Israel is the only refuge for the Jews after the Holocaust is based on the evasion that the Axis forces were barely stooped in Egypt with their sights for Jerusalem.  Ironically scumming to racism after being exposed to immense racism Israel is a place i detest to live in. 

In Israel i will be forced into servitude of one form or another and now i am doing whatever i can to rid myself of mandatory army service and immigrate to America for life. 

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  • 6 months later...

Onyx doesn't describe the updated situation. The socialist party lost political power in Israel about 35 years ago. Today Israel is a mixed economy with large element of crony capitalism but also has many small and medium independent companies which are world leaders in the field of Hi-tech innovation. I suggest to read the book " Start-Up Nation" by Saul Singer and Dan Senor.http://www.kalahari.com/Books/Start-Up-Nation_p_34177957?gclid=CJC72dTo_LsCFSKWtAoddDEA4w

Even in kibbutz the socialist ideology is not a supreme ruler anymore. The economical relations in kibbutz are not that of socialism but rather similar to that of extended family. The place where leftist ideology is still ruling in Israel is mass media and academia, like in the rest of the Western world. As for military service, yes it is compulsory. But for the most of israelis the military service is a source of pride and honor. The elite military units in fact have more applications to enroll  than they can absorb,  which makes the service voluntary. However if Onyx feels that Israel doesn't deserve to be defended and Hamas should take over, he should emigrate ASAP. In America he wouldn't be drafted to Army, but would be submitted to such an amount of rules and regulations that Israel would be like Galt Gulch by comparison. However Israelis in America make great phalaphel too, so Onyx is welcomed to join.

Edited by Leonid
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