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Modifying Christianity to save America

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Reason Man

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This post is shortened to the extent possible. But the link to its longer version is given at the end.


As part of comments on earlier OP “Can Christianity Locke Rand Mises Save America?” I said “Protestant religion is unique and a minor change can be made to it to save America”.  There is extreme critical attitude amongst several intellectual groups about Christianity and a typical comment, partly quoted, was – “Christianity is THE problem with the West. On its own it is dangerous, but when you secularize it you get the Left. I doubt we would have seen a phenomenon like the Marxist Left without Christianity influencing the Western Mind.” Being a typical comment no personal affront is meant, but my mission being to forge unity amongst individualist Americans I have to refute it.


Brief history of ancient church (important modifications relevant to our purpose here):

Since its beginning Christianity was modified into different Churches like Greek, Russian, Syrian etc, including 2 – 3 denominations in India. The Roman Catholic Church is its major power; Plato was the most important influence during the thousand years of Dark Ages when there was total power in the hands of kings and priests and the intention was to misuse religion to destroy all Greek knowledge. Bhudevs, i.e. “Gods on earth” was the position of kings and priests, backed by theories of Divine Right of Kings. People lost faith and to justify Christianity Aquinas inducted the outlawed Aristotle. After centuries Aristotle displaced Plato, subsequently leading to Renaissance (rebirth of reason).


ASPs built America by modifying Christianity

Francis Bacon’s “nature to be commanded has to be obeyed”, coupled with Galileo case (symbolizing science versus religion and thought versus dogma), opened the surrounding phenomena to mankind. John Locke’s theory of mind being a blank tablet at birth is simultaneously a step (a Protest) against “Original Sin”, against Confessions and the king and the priest’s power over the individual. Adam Smith’s statement about “the butcher, the brewer and the baker” infused rational selfishness into society (called as “right to life” by the Founding Fathers (FFs) of the US). Aristotle made British Empire strongest on earth – yet they continued to be devout Christians. Final climax was in the New World – inalienable rights of an individual, even the monarch was done away with, and the Pastor was respected, but separated from political power. Protestant religion infused into Americans via upbringing, “way of life” etc, rationality and individualism, which rest of the world even today does not understand. I have lot of details about it.


Catholics also had to change: The Roman Catholic Church was also compelled to undergo huge change and its political power is limited to the Vatican City only. In the same neighborhood they could not have completely opposite ways of life as compared to the reason and science based progress of Protestants. Therefore Europeans look different from rest of the mankind, and even Turkish Muslims are less fanatic than other Muslims.


Religion necessary for a large section of society:

Heroes contributed more in the transformation, but heroes are easily lynched by irrational societies (all over the earth and all through out history with the exception of Greek and present western civilization). After Aristotle’s induction to justify Christianity it was the suppressed middle-classes seeking freedom who supported change via the Protestant religion – and it would not be rational or civilized to rob them of due credit.

Several examples involving Plato, Aristotle, Locke, Ayn Rand, Von Mises etc are given to show why a large number of people do not understand “hi-fi” philosophy. Of these see the one involving Ayn Rand. Office colleagues were already against me because of Ayn Rand stuff, and somebody circulated my copy of her book on epistemology amongst engineers to show the first page which said: HOW DO WE KNOW WHAT WE KNOW? That is the problem that epistemology deals with – and upon the solution of this problem every other aspect of philosophy must rest.      Unquote.         Did they garland me because I was reading “epistemology”? They started pointing fingers, joking, giggling etc. Example: How do you know the building you are designing will stand? Does its foundation rest on a solid philosophy or only on soil? Etc. They were engineers of the same quality as Indians in the West, but had not migrated. From that judge what will be the reaction of people with much lesser intelligence at the bottom of society! See other examples in the long version. Do all people have so much of intelligence to differentiate between this and Kant? Ordinary people need philosophy to be given in terms of do’s and don’ts of ethics, usually AS RELIGION! But below the middle-classes to the lowest strata of society, the doles dependent vote block of parasites (DDVB of P) that Mitt Romney was afraid of, the response to hi-fi theories is “Fxxx them all but give me my 3 three meals”. The middle-classes who can understand some rationality and civilization oppose the parasites of DDVB of P but need guidance.

Good philosophy was passed onto ordinary people by modifying Christianity, and by infusing science and rationality into Protestant religion. All religions are similar and cannot be wished away from earth – theoretically they are also similar to Marxism. But there is a big crucial difference between today’s Christianity versus other religions, which we are discussing at the moment.

(The following is addressed to hi-fi: Marxists also tried to erase religion out of existence, but lost while religion remained; in the past the Romans were swept over by Christianity despite crucifixion. Religion does satisfy the need of a huge section of society, so transform it. The Founding Fathers (FFs) of US, very devout Christians, found a different solution – so follow their path, thankfully, instead of grandiose illusions of cleansing the earth of religion.)


The big question: the founding generations of the US were fanatics by today’s standards. Then how did they build America? Will any other religion, Marxism etc, similar to Christianity, be able to build America?


Wall of Separation makes Protestant religion unique and enables both, creators and ordinary “believers”, to practice what they want:


ASPs could build because of the magnanimous FF-Constitution which ensured unalienable rights of an individual, guaranteed freedom of thought and kept religion out of government. Against that GOP is using today’s Christians as its vote-block based on issues of gay marriage and school prayers, against the Dems’ DDVB of P. Americans have to think why their ancestors sacrificed so much if power was finally to be returned back to the political manipulator and the priest – just so as to destroy everything by bringing in the next Dark Ages? Jefferson’s Wall of Separation between state and church was the great achievement that made America possible. While all science, intelligence etc were fully unchained and active, believers also lived as per their beliefs, i.e. both were able to live as per their mind.


Further modification necessary today because Christianity insufficient due to weakness

This weakness is already described in the previous post, viz misuse of Charity: No opposition is possible by GOP who has to only me-too when Dems assert self-righteously: “Yes! We are carrying out America’s sacred duty of helping the poor!” (To retain their Christian vote-block GOP indulges in war-mongering and bail-out plutocracy.)


Why not “Hi-fi” philosophies but only modifying Christianity will help?


Because mass-support is indispensable to implement and sustain political rule. Great feats are achieved by individuals, but creation is possible only in a society of rational human beings, not of savages. A rational society in itself is a value to be cherished and preserved. No matter how great the creator is, he derives lot of benefit from a rational society – his vision started with the work of others prior to him. As world history shows, except for ancient Greece and modern America, the “thinking individual” is always and very easily crushed on earth. “We the Living” is Ayn Rand’s conceptual autobiography; see such people’s fate there. People like me who live away from America know the value of those “low level Christians”.

Till those “low level Christians” follow the FFs’ Constitution give them their due; don’t rob them of that credit. One reason why Washington was a great general was that he knew that every soldier was precious; he visited them many times to keep their morale intact! Most of them must have been devout Christians and bereft of hi-fi philosophy! It is the Protestants who built America; it is with their help that she will be saved.

One reason why American think-tanks will not get solution to democracy’s problems is because they don’t take reality of social gradations into account, and the fact that when evil uses the lowest strata to destroy civilization, it is the middle class (mainly Christians) that will save it if proper guidance is available. This is explained next.


Society is not an undifferentiated mass of savages (unless evil philosophy makes all of them evil):

(This is a very important point the hi-fi have missed.)

All societies have a graded structure of individuals of different characteristics, qualities, mental orientation and capabilities. Plato has called the divisions as Men of Gold, Silver and Bronze; Christianity has divided them into clergy, nobility and commoners / tradesmen; India’s Brahmins have 4 major castes, etc. Apart from individual heroes’ theories, politics is more determined by playing these social divisions against each-other and against the good.

Direction of society is generally determined by the interplay of good and evil at the upper levels (Men of Gold and Silver, top 15% of society). Evil is distributed everywhere from top to bottom of the social pyramid; but intelligence varies from more at the top to so very low amongst the lowest strata that they can easily be misused for destruction by promoting collectivist theories via them like demanding doles, worship of primitive gods and religions, etc – which is what intelligent evil men at upper levels strive to do forever. The middle-classes support the good, but only till the tops keep bringing solutions to social problems – the moment the good fails to bring in solutions, as is the case in America after New Deal, evil taps the lowest strata to overturn rule of rationality. That lowest stratum has now become the solidly united DDVB of P, leaving only a small chance for recovery.

Minorities (the evil ones amongst Plato’s Men of Gold and Silver) grabbing power is true of overwhelmingly major part of mankind’s history because they have never had good philosophy – in today’s America it would be because of default by hi-fi philosophers. Otherwise even in today’s democracy American Christian middle-classes, the most enlightened people on earth, could provide the numbers needed to stop America’s slide. Instead of solution GOP is using them as its vote-block for its vested interest, axing the base of America from the side opposite to Dems.


Hi-fi not understood freedom of mind:             ß this is the root of innumerable divisions amongst individualists, and inability of hi-fi to stop slide despite their “shining, latest, hi-fi philosophies” – and also the root of victory of evil.

Extreme criticism about each-other and about Christianity shows that hi-fi people have neither understood implications of freedom of mind, nor what is real evil and how to tackle it. I have chosen Christians because apart from numbers they have many virtues stated all over this post. In reality it is necessary to unite all individualist-groups. If people accept my writing then I intend to ban even preaching Christianity via government despite freedom of speech (so as to undo the welfare state forever), which neither the FFs nor the new heroes of individualist-Americans could do, despite both intending to do so! Violating the FFs’ constitution is the real act of enmity, which both Dems and GOP are doing for a long time now. America was not defeated by original Marxism (blood-rivers variety), but via welfare state the whole communist agenda is in (and debt is ballooning beyond control)! Understanding the finer points of difference is key to the issue. The magnanimity of FFs’ Constitution is responsible for both, America’s greatness, as well as today’s unstoppable slide. It is important to block both, welfare state as well as induction of religion into government. American Christians are likely to accept rational argument, but not DDVB of P who may lead to collapse. Hi-fi experts too may not accept rational argument, rather their small-time ego needs that innovator be blocked!


Further thoughts on why Christianity will continue, the future of small groups and their “hi-fi” philosophies, etc:


O’ism, Austrian school etc are not mass-movements; Ayn Rand’s novels are anti-masses. But foolishly the O’ists assume that O’ism will sweep the earth. It is like expecting ordinary people to solve all problems in mathematics and surpass Einstein! Ayn Rand and Von Mises will both get their place in academics but sweeping the earth is monopoly of mass-philosophies like religion. (I owe everything to Ayn Rand but don’t go overboard about her status.) The mass of American individualists are necessary to sustain America; Ayn Rand’s novels too, including their anti-masses orientation, are necessary because the qualities she evokes in men are different from the masses – their peaceful co-existence and complementing each-others’ advantages is made possible by the FFs’ Constitution!


To conclude:

It is the ASPs who built America; it is they who will save her. When polarization is complete (may take decades if nothing changes the course) and mobs are on the streets, majority of hi-fi will desert. To save America it is merely necessary to restore the FFs’ constitution. For me “Long Live America” is a very serious quest because of my Hindu experiences. With my argument, it may take at the most a year for the change to occur.

IMPORTANT à If anybody joins hands with me, they too can promote their group / endeavor while serving the highest cause of reclaiming America.

Long version of this file is available by ctrl + clicking on:                   http://share.cx.com/H2DPSh

You need not have a cx.com account, just ctrl + click on the link, then on download.


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A central problem with our society is that people rely on mystical ideas and mystical moral values. However, in a moral society religious people would be free to practice any religion they would like, or do any other self-destructive thing they would like to do, as long as they did not use force on other people.


Since your central premise is flawed, it saved me from having to read your entire article.

Edited by secondhander
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I went ahead and read the rest of it. I'm not sure what you mean by ASP's and Hi-Fi's.


But that aside, it seems as though you think that because the majority of people in a society aren't ready to accept what is true and moral, that truth and morality should be abandoned. No thanks. 


Also, you say:


But foolishly the O’ists assume that O’ism will sweep the earth.


Where did you read that? I don't think O'ists assume anything like that. No one is able to predict the future. 

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Aristotle did his thing near the end of Greek civilization. After that, his works diminished into relative obscurity. Individuals during the Renaissance and Thomas Aquianis rediscovered Aristotle and endevored to apply what they had discovered. In this sense, it is not word of mouth, or the reading of a few books and moving on, but the discovery of deeper implications that Miss Rand had identified that will have any ramifications in the long run.


FWIW: ASP's are the Anglo Saxon Protestants, while "hi-fi" philosophies did not come across as being explicitly delineated within this or the reference post.

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  • 2 weeks later...

‘Challenge to hi-fi’ in this post will give the reader idea of severity of America’s problems today.

Response took time because I waited for late comments and then other distractions came in; also this is a difficult topic. (Answers to main comments -- danb1215 on Freesteader, Lizzie and Bob Newton on TPN, Nicky and Secondhander on Obj Online are given in this post. But being longish, the most important part, viz. ‘Challenge to hi-fi groups’ is given below, rest is available in the link http://share.cx.com/5bFYWm )


danb1215 on Freesteader: I can't keep up with all of the acronyms and abbreviations.  I bet you're fascinating in person.

Acronyms, defined at the first occurrence, are used to shorten already long post. ASP is Anglo Saxon Protestant; FFs is Founding Fathers; DDVB of P is Doles Dependent Vote Block of Parasites; for hi-fi see ahead, though many people understood it.


Challenge to hi-fi:

In my criticism of hi-fi, O’ists are generally used as example for two reasons: One that I came from that side and started net-discussions on Ayn Rand forums; second that they are very strong in denouncing anybody that does not conform to their line of thinking (like the O’ist comment again disparaging Christianity on an OP explaining the latter’s contribution to America!) But the criticism is applicable to all hi-fi groups to the extent they divide the individualists. One more point: Net-forums, meant to discuss a particular philosophy, should allow reasonable criticism -- either refute it or accept it as improvement. Instead some O’ists debarred me for deviating from the line of their leaders, started campaign etc.


Hi-fi are small groups of conservative, free-market etc intellectuals and think tanks like O’ists, Austrian economists, C4L (Ron Paul), Libertarian & Constitution Party, Cato, Heritage and many others (all catering primarily to middle and upper class Americans) who fight irreconcilably over real issues, but which are trivial when compared with the fact that the two equally bad political parties are competing to convert White House into Kremlin or Vatican. Hi-fi teach man’s rights, capitalism, anti-doles etc only amongst the middle and upper classes, but never where most needed, the lowest strata. In effect they they make no positive contribution but strengthen divisions in the middle-classes where unity against larger evil is badly needed.


I will elucidate further on what hi-fi groups do with the example of the issue of race, but will be very brief here (I have lot more writing on this issue but no exposure, no support):

A proper analysis of race will surprise people that even Af-Ams have lost (apart from huge injustice to whites), and have just been used as pawns by politicians. Only dishonesty and irrationality have gained, along with welfare state and big government taking America to collapse. Today Af-Ams are heavily criminalized (police records will give stats) and middle-classes hate them; but the Af-Ams too were far better off prior to civil rights movement used for expanding the government. Says one black writer Walter Willaims, “The welfare state did to the blacks what slavery could not do, that is to destroy the black family”. Distrust and hatred between races regularly surfaces during cases like GZ-TM, George Zimmerman–Trayvon Martin case recently. Majority of Af-Ams belong in the lowest 30-35% bracket which I have said above (see full version) is used to promote evil. The emancipated Af-Ams have been made voting-slaves of Dems, while the Reps have grabbed the middle-classes. I can prove all this, but here the purpose is not to talk about race per se, nor of how evil politicians increased welfare state by destroying Af-Ams, but the overall behavior of hi-fi, (with O’ists as example) including their response to the issue of race.


Today it needs to be said, for the purpose of keeping America stable and united, that there is something terribly wrong with prevalent ideas about race and that the issue needs to be studied properly, and those who encourage minorities against whites have to be punished. But just talk about opening the issue for study and see how packs of wolves attack you! To capture minorities as their vote-block the Dems heap unlimited doles, justify all their misbehavior and fan hatred of whites. (White backlash is also seen against this once in a while.) What do the O’ists (and other hi-fi) do about it?

Just as they attack white middle-classes (Christian nutters, libertarian hippies, “Ron Paul should go” etc), so also they admonish the middle and upper classes with their allegedly hi-fi views about race which serve evil. They are not seen talking much (in fact almost anything at all) against minority criminality, minority racism, anti-America activities (La Raza) of a minority or about Dems abetting it.

Therefore I have to now challenge them as follows: Their allegedly hi-fi knowledge (man’s rights, capitalism etc) is more needed amongst the lowest strata, so let hi-fi go into the ghettos and advice them to give up demands for doles and give up criminality / drugs etc! Just as they deride “Christian nutters” let them tell the Af-Ams that their philosophy is anti-life and suicidal! If they appreciably educate the lowest strata who are Dems’ solid vote-block, I am sure that many Americans will join me in saluting them!

I further challenge hi-fi: Since anti-white feelings have purposely been fanned in the ghettos, teach them, instead of merely admonishing white Christians, why they should not be racists. GZ-TM was the case over which entire America’s (and partly even international) attention was riveted, US President intervened by the side of “if I had a son” TM; hence possibility of wrong judgment was almost nil. If after the judgment in such a case black mobs vandalized and attacked “crackers”, drew blood from behind the slogan “This is for Trayvon”, then where is justice in America? The stats of black-crime are available – if one tried to defend himself, he had a choice of how to get killed – either by TM or by “this is for TM”. And they are said to be so weak that I become a racist when I talk about Reverse Racism against whites, allegedly because they have no power to do such evil things! I remember that a girl admitted that the word “cracker” is commonly used by them. I now challenge hi-fi to tell them that all this is way beyond what whites can do in their wildest imagination, and that whites are punished severely for almost nothing compared to these crimes! I didn’t see many comments against all this on hi-fi sites, particularly O’ist. When did they adopt the attitude of “See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil?” Where real education is needed (i.e. amongst the lowest strata), do all their moral tenets such as “One should always speak out”, consciousness is identification etc vanish? Will they make similar disparaging comments about the lowest strata as they make about white middle-classes? Yet the worst about this case is not over, see ahead.


Dilution of challenge: OK hi-fi, you cannot do anything out of the above then I will dilute my challenge: don’t criticize minorities, don’t educate them, merely do one thing – stay in their midst, stay at the center of a ghetto. As further dilution, stay even at its edge but within a ghetto! Cannot accept even this? But that is the place where real change, education etc is required. So you want to live within protective zone of whites, mainly “Christian nutters”, and also destroy their world, undercut them, backstab them because they take no action against you for one-sided bad criticism? And you should also be venerated as purveyors of hi-knowledge?


Now let us see the response of middle and upper class America to the phenomenon.

GOP is making false noise of reducing the government and using the helpless middle-classes as their vote-block to carry out their huge private agenda, describing which will require a separate book! (Their agenda of school-prayers, gay marriage etc is meant only to retain this vote-block.)

And despite their intention of bringing in small government, fiscal responsibility etc, the tea-partiers also have no solution to the solidly united block of parasites versus the solidly divided block of individualists aggravated by democracy’s freedom to all to foment divisions. Their criticizing small-time politicians, RINOs, the blatantly racist minorities, dictators all over the earth etc are of no use. They are also partly playing blame-game while traveling downward along with whole of America. (From what I sumise, their’s is a rebellion against both the parties, though they are tilted towards GOP.) But the intellectuals have failed them and they too are in the same trap of getting divided due to inability to answer Dems’ doles gambit!


Therefore, so that the reader may know what trap America is in, I also urge him to consider the above challenge, viz. changing the lowest strata by educating them, and if not possible then just staying in their midst. Then the reader will come to know just the start of America’s problems. Democracy twists and magnifies problems, creates new problems, etc but DDVB of P is the start of problems. Then the reader will realize that without touching the core of the problem all of them are just playing a child’s game within their own groups. Because of its unity the DDVB of P is the most efficient tool of evil to destroy the good; historically (since Greek and Roman times) no solution has been found to it. And if others abstain from voting due to disillusionment then DDVB of P decides who will rule America!

So far there are only 2 ways known of dealing with the lowest strata, both leading to bad consequences: 1. Use them as vote-block to grab power -- the requirement for this is to satisfy their ever-increasing demands and vicious behavior, leading to victory of evil over good; 2. Suppress them physically because they refuse education, self-reliance etc – but this may lead to civil war because the power-seekers will side them! (Julius Caesar was born out of this, and as Stack said, they are coming in America too!) There are also 1-2 other ways, but they are part of my solution below.


Today the matters have gone far beyond and America seems to be just some time away from collapse – there are many signs of this, following are just samples: Earlier the thought of American President bending in front of the advanced Europeans was shameful – now the rulers seek savages to bend in front of, because commies and Sheikhs are their bankers! But why did you land America into that debt, Sir? There is neither willingness nor way to come out of that debt; and though everybody has adopted ostrich-attitude, soon reality will prevail when world will discard the toilet-paper, and then all hell will break loose. Other signs like bail-out plutocracy and rule of oligarchs, war-mongering with army in 125 countries, spying, tapping mails and phones are a-galore; Right to bear arms which FFs called as ultimate defense against govt (so much they were against an expanding govt), too is being taken away, like precaution before final assault. But two events are competing for the position of top-most sign of fall: First, the Dems invited the UN to referee in America’s internal affairs, like inviting the serpent to resolve internal fight of frogs – and yet Obama was re-elected afterwards, thanks to DDVB of P. While the FFs wouldn’t allow Europeans on American soil, today they are inviting UN as judges! The FFs (and their knowledge) came from Europe – the UN is pure, naked, uneducated, uncivilized savages. Second, re-read details of GZ-TM case given above, the worst part is that the acquitted GZ had to go into hiding because of threats from mobs on rampage, and if politicians side such mobs as “weak” then where is justice and law in US, supposed to be the safest place on earth? Their flaunting vandalism against their emancipators was a purposeful defiance of America’s police apparatus and entire legal system, and perhaps Constitution itself, as if saying “We are well protected” and as if they knew who their protectors were. Dems siding them, and hi-fi always admonishing white middle-classes but never this behavior is tantamount to ‘hatred of the good for being the good”, whether conscious or unplanned – this is the main guilty party, not the uneducated mobs. Can you imagine Russia or China issuing such threats to an innocent American, and will he go into hiding?

No, Russia-China are no match for America, but imagine Americans beaten by whom? The invincible, indomitable Americano who fought against the most powerful monarch of that time with a make-shift army of poor farmers, also rose against his own government when it imposed prohibition, dominates (at least so far) the world with his army in 125 countries, now being beaten merely by DDVB of P whom he emancipated -- merely being beaten by rogues and charlatans posing as politicians whose main power is DDVB of P! The world looks at them in awe, and see who is grounding them! Like the Greeks and the Romans pior to them, is Democracy the nemesis also of the Anglo Saxons? But Americano, the whole above underscores one point – the importance (which cannot be exaggerated) of one subject many of you deride – philosophy – Aristotle! Also note that I used race just as an example to bring out how the lowest strata is being used to destroy the good – the real culprits are charity, democracy, etc described in previous OP: Can Christianity, Locke, Ayn Rand, Von Mises save America?

Solution consists of a powerful argument that will strongly unite middle-classes with a single prime aim – to self-righteously restore and defend the original FF-constitution even by waging a war if necessary. That is my ultimate compelling argument.

But I have no locus standi; people have no time / interest to read more than a page. People can promote themselves if they join hands with me. But else I am finished with these forums which are not going to lead anywhere except downhill. (Some people have attached value to my writing; unfortunately it is negative because they are persecuting me to write against US – I don’t have the means even to bring this out somewhere; it would make a very good case!)

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Reason Man, you bring out some valid points. But I am not going to patronize you. The ethic/race problem in the US is a subject best discussed in the brightest of light cast upon the volumes of history, making it the most challenging problem present-day and future Americans face. Equating every African-American with "DDVB of P" is absurd. As far as doing time in a ghetto, I have done mine, and found that a significant number of my fellow caucasians substantiate the welfare case loads, and constitute some of the most voracious bottom-feeders. As an individualist, I do not ingore this subject, and often take up the topic, admittedly, only when I am confident that emotions woun't go ballistic. If it were up to me, there would be no publicly funded schools, perhaps only charitably funded recreation centers. Only the willing can be educated. I don't believe there ever was a completely united United States, and I agree that democracy is a very flawed form of government. Our crisis, as you seem to frame it, is one of a lack of intellectual leadership. The majority of Americans prefer trivia and style to any substantial form of debate. When Christianity enters the debate, reason is at risk. Any solution worthy of pursuit must be founded on reason.

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