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Nelson Mandela

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Nicky

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Um, that would require that he sent out his orders from jail, which is quite a claim. And if he sent no orders in jail, the MK is an independent entity. Mandela had the MK use sabotage, not killing any civilians. Once he was in jail, new MK leaders took it all in a bad direction. Hyperbolic comparisons don't help. A hit squad, comparisons to Hitler, saying he did things as bad as Lenin, I just... can't take your posts in the thread seriously

You're not talking about my posts, you're describing your own strawmen. You probably should stop taking them seriously.

The only item on that list that you didn't make up, is that I called MK a hit squad (or terrorist group, or guerillas, or whatever you wish to call an organization that commits violence against non-military targets) founded by Mandela for the express purpose of committing violence, and then rewarded by him with positions of power once they were finished. Hence, the possessive pronoun. The resources I linked to make it clear enough that that's historical fact.

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Don't you think you fellows are talking past each other, with ~slightly~ preconceived ideas of who or what Mandela was? I think you are both part right, part wrong, and both lacking enough info to arrive at conclusions.

I don't claim any special insight, either, btw. But I return to my early opinion that he was always the loyal child of the ANC, as well as its eventual father. Imagine a Politburo, say, which from behind the scene allowed him some space to maneuver, as long as the Party (and after, the nation) was being served in the long term. So what remains is: how much was he his own man? What otherwise would he have done?

For me he remains an enigma, beneath his public face.

What disturbs me is that I think some measure of the acclaim he received here and world wide, was due to the fear everyone felt at the time; in other words, that he did NOT allow "the bloodbath" to occur post-election, and was instead conciliatory to whites, seemingly bestowed a high morality upon him. Nuh-huh - morally, that can never be enough, and implies some sick, double standards, suggesting that the whites implicitly deserved it.

On the other hand, not long ago someone I trust told me about his nephew who worked in close proximity to Mandela as economics advisor (and to his credit, Mandela largely left the economy alone - to the advantage of the country, at the time) who said to him "Uncle, if you knew what Mandela really thought about the whites, you'd be on the next plane out." That he didn't wreak any economic revenge in his term in office, given his private feelings, is a moral plus.

(But then again, did he know what was being planned by the Party to follow his term?)

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Everything could be known by comparison. if one compares Mandela with Zuma, Mugabe or other African " leaders" it becomes clear why Mandela was so revered. The fact that he never allowed his personal feelings towards whites to define his position as a statesman, speaks  a lot in his favor.

Edited by Leonid
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Everything could be known by comparison. if one compares Mandela with Zuma, Mugabe or other African " leaders" it becomes clear why Mandela was so revered. The fact that he never allowed his personal feelings towards whites to define his position as a statesman, speaks  a lot in his favor.

Leon, Too true, though the bar is set very low...

It grates that he is being constantly revered for his 'legacy' of (seeming) humility and self-sacrifice (again, compared with the arrogant avarice of the corruptly inept leaders) when what should rather be extolled was his integrity, pride and industriousness.

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