Thoyd Loki Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 What history is that Bowser? Are you refering to the few posts i have made on this forum or my entire life of which you know nothing about? Well, we do know about your drinking weekends. You do realize that you gave us access to your online diary? Very depressing... There is also the entire post of Betsy's pointing out the "history". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betsy Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 btw at a glance i would have deleted these posts too if i had more time: http://forum.ObjectivismOnline.com/index.p...674entry69674 http://forum.ObjectivismOnline.com/index.p...673entry69673 http://forum.ObjectivismOnline.com/index.p...421entry69421 Omigod! Someone PLEASE revoke NIJamesHughes moderator privileges before he does any more damage! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoyd Loki Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 btw at a glance i would have deleted these posts too if i had more time: http://forum.ObjectivismOnline.com/index.p...674entry69674 http://forum.ObjectivismOnline.com/index.p...673entry69673 http://forum.ObjectivismOnline.com/index.p...421entry69421 Wow, what a tiny little forum we'd have here. Here is a little smattering of excerpts from various postings of mine. Some snippets are complete posts, and without much content, some of snipped from large posting with a lot of content. Delete away! WilliamB, Please DO NOT put my name in a post like that. Did you go to the Immanuel Kant school of writing? Am I expected to read that? I was actually referring to thesweetscience on that. But, since you want it... I have. You are a pragmatist. Whatever your focus is on, it is not about truth. My proof is your last post to me (and the others). Now, for once, don't focus on the messenger, but at least take a glance at the message. Was this covered in OPAR? I missed the physics section of the book... I don't know Kung Fu. I was implying that I didn't believe you had attorneys. I thought you were a kid! Please! You have attorneys! And, I know Kung Fu! Hoo-yeow! Wow! That is a mind blower dude. You get my Most Ignorant Statement of the Year award. Holy cripes! I just busted a brain artery. Wow, I am officially out of all loops. I don't know any of the bands of the last 12 posts (except blink-182, and they should be flogged and burned in an alley). Think I'll go play some Stones. You are not kidding, Inquisitor80. There are ten mistakes in your last post alone! Eddie, learn how to use the quotes, your posts are very tedious to read. Thank You. Results of what? You sitting alone, dejected from the world so much you haven't heard the word Objectivsm outside your own mind in 20 years? The blame rests with you, brother, not your phantom "enemies" you obviously know very little about. Yeah, no kidding. When I posted my wish of revenge on Cannonball's head last night, I hoped it was going to come in the form of Mr. Speicher! Wow, what a smear job. I hope someone better able than I takes you to task for that, CB. That's OK, he's already banned himself from reality. And for now that is punishment enough You are wrong sir. I did that! I wasn't trying to get him to leave. But, when I spend time copying down text for him from Aristotle's Organon, and various other sources and hear no response but a restatement of the problem as if I and everyone else have said nothing, I get pissed. He (three times now) could only pick up on the jibes of my third post but yet again the logic part has flown over his head. I have no time to waste for one that will not even consider the opinion of Aristotle. To fire with ya! Besides, you can tell by his response to me that he is a big cry baby: "If I wouldn't get booted off for cursing...waaa!" I could see a little kid with diapers about to fill. Yeah, I don't recall Dagny being described as having a set of beef-liver lips on her face. I always resort to insults after one ignores logical arguments. The implication is given that that is all you can respond to. I was fully justified in smearing your face in whatever I wanted to. You were answered thoroughly about induction in two seperate threads by several people, and you keep spewing the same argument. And hey, I'm sorry you have no ability to reason. I'll be certain to ignore anything from you here on out. Yes, I have dozens of them. So, start the argument, and it better be better than Pft; is that a farting sound or something? That would be a mighty fine idea...if we were living in the Matrix! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithP Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 As far as we know (perhaps a moderator can verify), this is entirely optional. It is a fact that you can edit your own post without this note being added (it's an option that you simply turn on or off) so I assume it's the same for moderators editing posts. If that is the case then that should be changed immediately! The administrator of the forum should make an editing tag mandatory if it isn't already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeus Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 But what is David Veksler's position on this matter? The buck stops with him ultimately, and I don't see him rushing to silence this non-entity who has just sacrificed the board he owns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thales Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 I believe GreedyCapitalist is on vacation in NYC, currently. Being the owner of the board, he's probably the one who has the power to resolve this situation. Perhaps he will be able to access while in NY, otherwise it could be several days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIJamesHughes Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Omigod! Someone PLEASE revoke NIJamesHughes moderator privileges before he does any more damage! If you will have noticed I haven't done anything in the moderation sector since "the scandal," and don't plan to, until i speak with david, so again If i was just trying to cause problems why wouldn't I just ban everyone of you and worse, delete all the posts on the forum, making them lost forever? again is that an issue which is going to be over looked here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoyd Loki Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 I believe GreedyCapitalist is on vacation in NYC, currently.  Being the owner of the board, he's probably the one who has the power to resolve this situation. Perhaps he will be able to access while in NY, otherwise it could be several days. Nah, he's here right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIJamesHughes Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Well, we do know about your drinking weekends. You do realize that you gave us access to your online diary? Very depressing... There is also the entire post of Betsy's pointing out the "history". What about drinking? Obviously i do know i gave you access to my online diary, after all I posted the link to it here. And i don't find anything depressing about it at all. So if you want to do something besides make vague generalizations about my social life, feel free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metaphysician7887 Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 btw at a glance i would have deleted these posts too if i had more time: http://forum.ObjectivismOnline.com/index.p...674entry69674 http://forum.ObjectivismOnline.com/index.p...673entry69673 http://forum.ObjectivismOnline.com/index.p...421entry69421 This is a stand-alone testament to the utter lack of competency that NIJamesHughes possesses as a moderator. And given all the other evidence, it truly would be an act of faith to think that NIJamesHughes acted anything other than reprehensibly in altering Stephen's posts. Plain and simple, I will not be posting here anymore if NIJamesHughes is not stripped of his moderator privileges completely. --Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoyd Loki Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 What about drinking? Obviously i do know i gave you access to my online diary, after all I posted the link to it here. And i don't find anything depressing about it at all. So if you want to do something besides make vague generalizations about my social life, feel free. Really? Nothing depressing about it at all? What about this snippet? I am really bored with everything.. work, friends, drinking. my mind feels blank, like i am only reacting to concretes and never conceptualizing anything. What about the drinking? Why don't you try thinking instead of drinking? Spelled similar-very different. It reads like a diary for a Existentialism's site moderator. Do you 'moderate' while drinking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Bucko Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Shame on NIJamesHughes for this blatant and unjust abuse of moderator privileges. ... I want to see the owners and other moderators of this forum take action to fix this situation. I don't blame Stephen for leaving. He deserves an apology for what happened, at minimum. I too want Stephen to stay, and the moderator in question to go. I joined this forum--the first I've ever joined--because Betsy Speicher recommended it. I soon found that, when I had time to read only a few posts, hers and Stephen's were the ones to read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIJamesHughes Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Really? Nothing depressing about it at all? What about this snippet? What about the drinking? Why don't you try thinking instead of drinking? Spelled similar-very different. It reads like a diary for a Existentialism's site moderator. Do you 'moderate' while drinking? Right, you can judge my whole life from a feeling that i had one day. again you are making generalizations without really proving anything, like saying "it reads like a ...blahblahblah." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidV Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 After spending another amazing day of my vacation shlepping around New York City, visiting the Metropolitan, eating all sorts of native cuisine, I signed on to the forum to the few minutes and discovered this storm brewing. Let me point out a few facts: I am the final authority of everything that goes on here. I have access to EVERYTHING that the moderators (and regular members) do here. I make regular backups of the forum database, so I know the content of a post even if it was edited, deleted, or otherwise mutilated. The actions of one moderator do not a forum policy make. The moderators are required to make a public notice when a post is edited. There is a private moderation forum, a private reporting system, and a private warning system, so discussions of behavior are not necessarily public. I am not omniscient in my judgment of character, so I can make mistakes occasionally. And finally, such mistakes can be corrected. Given these facts, I think it’s a bit unfair to issue judgments about the forum itself or threaten to storm off because of ill treatment. When I have the opportunity, I will review the relevant content and make a decision about how to treat the parties involved and whether particular posts need to be restored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsalt Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 (edited) After 10 months on this forum, I know Stephen to be: knowledgable and possessed of a depth of understand about Objectivism above virtually any one else on this forum; generous with his time; patient, especially with beginners; hard-working; funny; true to his word and in all other ways honest. I've never encountered the moderator in question, at least that I remember, until this thread. What have I learned about him here: 1. He is presumptuous. That a 19 year old would presume to judge Stephen's posts "worthless" -- without stating why he made this judgment and give evidence to back up that judgment, tells me that he doesn't have the maturity, much less the knowledge and understanding to be a moderator. 2. He has repeatedly broken the rules of the forum himself. He has not followed the most basic rules of grammer--and I'm not talking about not an inadvertent misspelling or a forgotten comma, either. He has also been snide and condesending to Bowser, in particular, and uncivil to almost everyone else who has challenged him. 3. He has shown by statements, such as "no big deal" that he does not grasp the gravity of his actions. He seems unwilling to even entertain the thought that he may have acted wrongly. 4. Probably the most important thing I've learned is that the moderator doesn't understand the concept of private property as it pertains to copywrited material. The idea that we have lost Stephen's wisdom and knowledge to someone so wet behind the ears that he doesn't even recognize what is wrong with this situation -- and is unwilling to learn -- is almost beyond comprehension. I love this forum. At best, it has afforded me an opportunity to finally interact with others of like mind and allowed me to grow beyond what I could do on my own, and it has helped me to clarify my own understanding. While there are others here who have been of help with this point or that, no one has come close to being the help that Stephen has been (with the exceptions of Betsy and Bowser, both in very different ways), even when he wasn't addressing me personally or I wasn't participating in the discussion. I appreciate, respect, and value him greatly. What has happened constitutes a gross injustice, and if the situation isn't rectified, I won't be back. If injustice is allowed to stand, the forum won't be worth coming back to anyway. Edit by the author: Added number 4 in the list regarding the moderator, which I inadvertently left out. Edited January 24, 2005 by oldsalt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidV Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 A few more things: Until I make any further decisions, JamesHughes has no moderating privileges. There are two other administrators who may act on my behalf when I’m unavailable. Unless you have any new information to add, any posts containing ultimatums or your opinions are a waste of your and other’s time, since my decisions are made solely on the basis of the facts available to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betsy Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 When I have the opportunity, I will review the relevant content and make a decision about how to treat the parties involved and whether particular posts need to be restored. The issue isn't this particular moderator or whether to restore these particular posts. The issue is that posts were deleted without notice to the author. This is a serious matter to anyone who values his postings. If someone isn't told and doesn't know his posts have been deleted or "edited," how can he possibly know to ask to have them restored? Any action taken that changes or makes a poster's work unavailable to him and others should automatically generate a notice to the author and the original post should automatically be returned to the author. Otherwise, even the most conscientious and careful moderator could accidentally delete a post, nobody would know, and valuable content would be lost. And there's no telling what damage a careless or malicious person could do to this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex_banana-eater Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Now I'm really confused. You ought to watch yourself, because I'm pretty sure the administrators are able to access the log of IP addresses for user names if this is like any other forum I've been to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betsy Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 This is a copy of an e-mail Stephen sent to two of the forum moderators: I want to clarify something for the benefit of you both. I think number of people miss the essential point of why I left. I do not care about those few posts that were changed -- those posts were made in a nonsense thread of little value -- but I care about the principle underlying it. My foremost concern is that a change was made to my posts and I was not notified that this was done. How can I possibly retain the integrity of whatever I write if changes to what I write are made without my knowledge? A related concern is that unless I am provided with a copy of the original that has been changed, how can I properly judge what was changed? How could I contest it? I simply will no longer post in a forum where my posts can be changed without informing me of that act and providing me with the original content that was changed. Again, I could care less about the posts in that silly thread that NIJamesHughes edited away, but the fact that he did so in that case without my knowledge puts at risk the many posts of great substance that I do care about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dianahsieh Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Two possible theories. N.I.James Hughes is this 19-year old: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/apb...%20Co%20creator or, Diana Hsieh's pseudonym Pardon my French, but ... WTF?!? (Really, I have no idea why my name was dragged into this dispute about moderation.) For the record, I never write under any name under my own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnargtharst Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 I'd like to direct an act of justice toward Greedy Capitalist: in my experience, this has been the best bulletin-board-style forum I've ever been involved with. I say this to him, because I've gotten an impression of condemnation of the forum from some postings. I can't know what private (or even public -- I dont' have that kind of time) postings Mr. Speicher may have had with OO.net owners, and thus whether this was a "last straw" kind of thing, nor do I have any knowledge about the moderator and his "edits" (nor do I want to). It is possible that there are imperfections with the forum and its methods of moderation; my appreciation is directed at all those things which this forum is, not those things it is not. I'm sure I'd be upset to have my words retroactively changed. Nonetheless, my writings and reputation on things philosophical are not such that I fear major damage from malicious moderators, and so I will continue to post, and trust that the forum creators, who have done such a great job heretofore, will resolve this issue as best as their resources allow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex_banana-eater Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Don't worry Diana, the member who wrote that is obviously a troll. Check his posts--he only has 3. The administrators can link his IP address in this user name to his real user name and find out who he really is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daughter of Time Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 GreedyCapitalist - - If you will forgive my presumption to offer a suggestion, it is this. An artery is bleeding and delay could be fatal to the continued success of the forum. Decisive action is needed now and a bandaid (i.e. rescinding moderator status) will not do. The essential fact at the root of the problem is known. Stephen Speicher's posts were altered without his knowledge or consent. It does not matter what the particular content was or why it was done or if it was done under the umbrella of the house rules. The fact that it was done undermines the integrity of this forum. The fact that we are all now aware that this could be done to any of our posts constrains our willingness to post here at all. The immediate action which is needed is to stop all editing of posts by moderators and to offer an immediate apology publicly to Stephen Speicher with an assurance that such an infringement will never occur again. There is time to look into all relevant aspects of this incident and take appropriate corrective actions. There is time to establish new policies (Betsy Speicher earlier offered some excellent suggestions on handling inappropriate or offensive posts). There is not time to let the firestorm continue to rage. I empathize with all of this being dumped on you on a snowy Sunday in New York and wish you well in bringing this to a positive conclusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quasar Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 stephen_speicher Yesterday, 10:56 AM I am leaving this forum immediately. Thoyd Loki Yesterday, 03:43 PM The Fox Mulder in me is stirring... Email I received from DVDBoxing (at AOL) also known as ThesweetscienceDVDBoxing:1/23/2005 9:16:02 P.M. Central Standard Time Have you been watching the forum? Dude, I have shaken that place to its very core and now Dr. Speicher has left the forum forever over a post I started. And then there was Citizen Publius. Citizen Publius was banned for not apologizing for PMs that were received by BurgessLau and Stephen_Speicher but which he swore he did NOT send. He tried to warn you all. No one would listen then. Perhaps you'll listen now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfarmer Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 I really have nothing new to add other than to add to the general sadness being felt over the loss of Stephen. Over the past ten months I've been associated with OO, I learned quickly that Stephen's and Betsy's posts were always good. I always looked forward to reading their replies when they responded to one of my posts. To think that Stephen may be gone is still incomprehensible for me. I know, though, that justice will be served. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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