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Trump, the Anti-Socialist

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6 hours ago, Eiuol said:

 

Interference is the opposite of abandonment. To feel abandoned means that you feel some interference is good.

Thanks for the media narrative though, it was like watching Tucker Carlson.

nah. Statist intervention and you know it. Which amounted to sacrifice of US industries and personnel for the cheap import fix.

You won't -feel - your way out of that. 

Edited by whYNOT
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12 hours ago, Eiuol said:

What are you even talking about? It's as if you think my disagreement means I think there is no statist intervention... Did you realize that I'm accusing these people of wanting statism?

Both left and right want statist intervention on their behalf. As long as there exists statism, the state can and will artificially manipulate markets in what they believe is "the people's interest". What any single govt Administration defines as the public good changes according to policy/ideology - essentially, getting cheaper products and produce for the people vs. protecting local industry. Both interventions in trade, pricing, supply etc. are statist. 
"Protect" local manufacture and employment with high tariffs, or give "the people" lower prices of goods with low tariffs. I think basically both are "protectionist" - however - the latter is a short term fix, literally an addiction. 

Foreign trading partners often export masses of "loss-leader" products to break into some country's lucrative market; but as the costs/prices are unsustainable, not long before those prices begin spiraling. There is also the potential of foreign states cynically attempting to cripple a nation's economy with this strategy. (China?) And if the trading partner arbitrarily imposes high tariffs on your exports, what then? They must realize you have the right to reciprocate. 

In the meantime, industries that couldn't compete with those artificially low prices have closed down. Skilled employees have relocated. To open a plant requires a reasonably predictable market, a long lead time in planning, high capital investment, re-hiring, re-training of skills... and much more effort and risks. 

"Economic nationalism"?

Until laissez-faire, can you or anyone advise me of a way out of that? With laissez-faire, the government would be permanently cut out of the loop, no trade talks by 'our leaders', no tariffs and duties, no trade wars, no protectionism - none of that can be the state's concern. Trade would be from individual to individual, business with business, at their mutually agreed terms (and at their risk). 

 

Edited by whYNOT
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As far as I see in what you wrote, it was regurgitated preformed thoughts you've gained from the media you consume, and you ended up supporting an expansion of statism and a further step away from capitalism in the form that you want (what you phrase as economic nationalism is a form of economic intervention, an increase of intervention of a sort that we haven't had in a while). If you don't want to sound like a robot parroting off what you've been programmed to say (automated jobs are taking journalism jobs now!), you would need to explain how these things are desirable even as a marginal preference. 

36 minutes ago, whYNOT said:

With laissez-faire, the government would be permanently cut out of the loop

Talk about abandonment!

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On 12/17/2019 at 5:18 PM, Eiuol said:

As far as I see in what you wrote, it was regurgitated preformed thoughts you've gained from the media you consume, and you ended up supporting an expansion of statism and a further step away from capitalism in the form that you want (what you phrase as economic nationalism is a form of economic intervention, an increase of intervention of a sort that we haven't had in a while). If you don't want to sound like a robot parroting off what you've been programmed to say (automated jobs are taking journalism jobs now!), you would need to explain how these things are desirable even as a marginal preference. 

Talk about abandonment!

Beneath the bumf, this means what? Automated jobs in journalism is senseless from what I've said.

 I have already cited evidence for the Left-dominated propaganda, and no answer from you. 

"Supporting an expansion of statism" - is an ignorant interpretation of what I wrote. If you're going to face the reality, statism is a fact of life everywhere which needs to be identified and qualified to oppose. One does not airily wave it away: laissez-faire -- or nothing!

In fear I gather of the bogeyman "Nationalism", the prevarication and ambivalence from many O'ists when faced with the realistic possibility of socialism  - the much, much worse statism, especially by comparison with the more benign American "nationalism". And so Objectivists are frozen from making a reasoned, principled stand and taking decisive action, either way. 

It's noticeable that no one acknowledged that President Trump is on record stating his willingness to drop tariffs if others do. But accepting that would compromise the prejudiced mindset of his critics. How can "Trump" do anything right?! Maybe some think the capitalist thing to do is to unilaterally eliminate tariffs, i.e. self-sacrifice. To remind them, you're dealing with a malicious and totalitarian- Statist country, China, seeking 'economic' ascendacy over the US.

Context, always the first to go, next, ignoring hierarchical values. But holding those are hallmarks of Objectivism.

 

Edited by whYNOT
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