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Are life and philosophy conflicted?

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This is a very interesting topic so I thought I would give my thoughts however valid they are, is up to you. Rand is the smartest individual I have ever heard in my life. Frank Zappa the musician who was very fond of Rand and was himself one of the most intelligent people of his time. Zappa said " you have to get into it before you can get out of it". I find this a profound statement indeed, because its saying something with out really saying anything at all kind of like Rand. Most individuals in the world don't think objectively, and its not because they don't know how to its because they choose not too. Rand fell at this one as I can see most of you do as well, a rock star like Zappa poked fun at this objectivist thinking and logical reasoning because it sucks the life from individuals. Ask your self one question does reading all these Rand books and study theories make you feel any better at the end of the day. Do you really think you are going to gain the knowledge to crack the secret to life? In your present day culture which you exist your going counterculture. Most of the world doesn't care about this Objectivist thinking so the individuals you try and teach and influence are going to die off just like and your analytical thoughts. I believe there is a worse thing then people who don't know how to think, its people that analyze their own lives without realizing that their own lifes are stake and that their life becomes wasted. Rand and all are truely great thinkers but is it a little strange to be 25 years old, still living at home or as a poor bastard reading Rand books and telling everyone one about things that are of no real solid substance in our society today. Wake up and have a little fun, meet a girl and burn your computers find that you only have one chance at life and stop Analyzing something that you have no control of. You live and you Die everyone does what you think in your head makes no difference its what you do and experience that memories are made of here on earth and I doubt some Rand book is going to give you a warm fuzzy feeling. GET A LIFE :pimp:

[Have split this into a new topic. Corrected spellings of "analytical", "himself" and "experience". Capitalized "Objectivist". - SoftwareNerd]

Edited by softwareNerd
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I can't even begin to count the logical fallacies used there. I know, I know- the fact that you use logical fallacies in your arguing means that I don't have a life.

Please explain how having a more accurate understanding of the nature of reality, and thereby a better standard by which to make decisions, leads to a less fulfilling life. In my experience, becoming an Objectivist and utilizing rational decision making has greatly increased my sense of life.

I also don't understand why you describe ethics as "analyzing something that you have no control of." It is because humans have volition that they need to make decisions, and therefore need a standard to guide this process. Ethics tell a person which standard to use.

Finally, I suggest you adopt a posting style that makes you appear less like a troll.

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In your present day culture which you exist your going counterculture. Most of the world doesn't care about this objectivist thinking so the individuals you try and teach and influence are going to die off just like and your anylitcal thoughts.
Doesn't this sound very much like using other people as the standard of your values and motives? Hey wait, it is.

Talk about second-handedness.

I believe there is a worse thing then people who don't know how to think, its people that analyze their own lives without realizing that their own lifes are stake and that their life becomes wasted. Rand and all are truely great thinkers but is it a little strange to be 25 years old, still living at home or as a poor bastard reading Rand books and telling everyone one about things that are of no real solid substance in our society today.

Ah, society. Presumably an entity that acts all on its own, where you don't shape it, but it shapes you. If that is your outlook, then who am I talking to? Just a component of society, presumably. Does that notion not make you indignant - if not powerless?

meet a girl
burn your computers

GET A LIFE
Did your society tell you this was how to go about getting a life? It's telling you a lie.

Since you like music, I'll quote a lyric:

Will some cold woman in this desert land,

make me feel like a real man

Take this rock and roll refugee

Oooh babe set me free

Pining for a woman to make you into something else. Some kind of "man" you'd be.

p.s. You might want to start a new thread, as your post was off-topic.

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Hi! And welcome to the forums!

Ask your self one question does reading all these Rand books and study theories make you feel any better at the end of the day.

Yeah, how'd you guess?

Ask your self one question does reading all these Rand books and study theories make you feel any better at the end of the day.

There's a theory to life!?!?

Wake up and have a little fun, meet a girl and burn your computers find that you only have one chance at life and stop Analyzing something that you have no control of.

Should I burn my Rand books too along with my computer?

GET A LIFE

Ok. Thanks for taking the time out of your day to help enlighten me on where I'm going wrong, I really appreciate it--w/o your help, I'd be lost.

PS--Do you know if Mr. Zappa had autism or Asperger's?

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Zappa said " you have to get into it before you can get out of it". I find this a profound statement indeed, because its saying something with out really saying anything at all kind of like Rand.

What does that Zappa quote mean? I really don't understand it at all. Although I almost never understand Zappa, I just like his music.

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Theory seems to be begging us to weaken ourselves by abandoning our critical thinking, so that we may be less of a threat to those who prefer not to think.

Ah, but wait: he concedes that thinking may have some purpose after all, just not so much that it becomes intimidating to those who wallow in stupidity as a defense mechanism only a little.

Ask your self one question does reading all these Rand books and study theories make you feel any better at the end of the day.
Yes. Now that I've given the answer you either feared or refused to believe, what case can you possibly have against this philosophy?

Do you really think you are going to gain the knowledge to crack the secret to life?

Is this part of the "one" question I should ask myself? We already have cracked the secret to life. A is A.

In your present day culture which you exist your going counterculture. Most of the world doesn't care about this Objectivist thinking so the individuals you try and teach and influence are going to die off just like and your analytical thoughts.

What a relief that must be. You can turn your head away, and be content that one day, the people graciously and futilely trying to reason with you will be gone. There's just one problem: you depend on reason to live. Whether it's from yourself or (in your case) from other people, science, technology, logic, analysis, philosophy, and every other concept and procedure that makes human life as unique and valuable as it is are irrevocable and also supporting the existence you claim to value.

I find it appropriate that you imply life is precious because it ends and is irreplaceable. When you attack reason, you attack life, and life becomes little more than the opposite of death, with no accomplishment or value in between.

Edited by The Passion of the Koresh
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This advise should annoy madman: read Rand's essay The Metaphysical versus the Man-Made.

I'll just say, without Objectivism I wouldn't have learned how to write art as well as I do, and will, and it is a heck of a ball. It's very enjoyable.

I won't analyze my experience, though.

But writing is something that can be done anywhere, anyhow. Just check out the movie Quills. The only problem, is that Sade, should not have stooped to using blood, or feces. He could have improved his memory and becoming a free style poet. What a crazy f. he was!

Americo.

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I believe there is a worse thing then people who don't know how to think, its people that analyze their own lives without realizing that their own lifes are stake and that their life becomes wasted.

But you know what? There's something even worse than that. It's those people who misspell a word that they spelled correctly only six words back in the same sentence. God, I hate those people.

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Regardless of the tone of the original post, it did raise an issue that is important to earnest students of philosophy. When the poster said "Get a life", his underlying assumption was that philosophy is contrary to or irrelevant to life.

In his "Understanding Objectivism" lectures, Dr. Peikoff leads off with this issue, when he speaks of people who think that philosophy stifles individuality or the self. (He mentions that many well-meaning students of Objectivism make this error.)

He says: "...these people find themselves in the following position: if they pursue their own self they feel guilty, if they repress it they feel emptiness and frustration."

"The conclusion they come to is: the problem, the culprit, is the attempt to impose a philosophy -- any philosophy -- on a person's individuality."

The issue itself is an important one that an individual has to resolve.

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Well, when I read a post like the one made by Theory of a mad man 1, I just remember Ayn Rand saying that not everyone can be saved and I go merrily on my way.

However, when I see intelligent people actually responding to that gibberish, it makes me want to :D and tell those intelligent people to get a life! Guys, seriously, why do you bother to respond to that?

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Guys, seriously, why do you bother to respond to that?

Regardless of the intentions of the poster (also remember that the post was originally made within another thread, as a response- and not as its own thread), the opinions he expresses are popular ones. Many people think that ethics are anthetical to a good, happy life. The Objectivist view on ethics is precisely opposite.

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Well, when I read a post like the one made by Theory of a mad man 1, I just remember Ayn Rand saying that not everyone can be saved and I go merrily on my way.

However, when I see intelligent people actually responding to that gibberish, it makes me want to :confused: and tell those intelligent people to get a life! Guys, seriously, why do you bother to respond to that?

Thanks for the compliment.

Why did I respond to it? He reminded me of someone I used to know. It was a way of clarifying my own thoughts to myself. And it's fun to shoot down a badly presented argument. I got a good laugh out of Nxixcxk's response.

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Many people think that ethics are anthetical to a good, happy life. The Objectivist view on ethics is precisely opposite.

Cole, I agree.

Dr. Peikoff's focus on this issue (in his "Understand Objectivism" course) to an audience of paying Objectivists, indicates that this is an issue that Objectivists need to "chew" on, even if they undertsnad it intellectually. While Objectivists know that there is no dichotomy between philosophy and happiness, many have a hard time truly integrating this understanding. Consider the following:

Where would we all be if Einstein, Newton, Edison and Tesla had "got" lives?????

I do not know about these specific people, but I wish the brilliant men of this world "get lives".

I wish, like Dagny, they were to say: "Why have we left it all to fools? It should have been ours." [Atlas Shrugged, Part 1, Ch 6]

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I do not know about these specific people, but I wish the brilliant men of this world "get lives".

I wish, like Dagny, they were to say: "Why have we left it all to fools? It should have been ours." [Atlas Shrugged, Part 1, Ch 6]

Absolutely, but very different "lives" from what our original poster was aspousing.

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Cole, I agree.

Dr. Peikoff's focus on this issue (in his "Understand Objectivism" course) to an audience of paying Objectivists, indicates that this is an issue that Objectivists need to "chew" on, even if they undertsnad it intellectually. While Objectivists know that there is no dichotomy between philosophy and happiness, many have a hard time truly integrating this understanding...

Could you please explain the *reasoning* people use to say philosophy is anti-life? I'm having a hard time understanding... :confused:

edited for clarification

Edited by non-contradictor
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Could you please explain the *reasoning* people use to say philosophy is anti-life? I'm having a hard time understanding... :lol:

edited for clarification

I think in many cases, people equate bad philosophy with the whole of philosophy. They might set up a train of thought as follows:

Premise A: Kant, Dewey, Calvin, and Sartre's theories (and all other theorists presented at X University or by Y authority figure), when put in to practice, have horrific results in a person's life.

Premise B: Kant, Dewey, Calvin, and Sartre (and all other theorists presented at X University or by Y authority figure) are among the most respected philosophers in the world.

Conclusion: Philosophy is anti-life.

The premises are correct, but the conclusion is a non-sequiter. This person, probably a second-hand thinker, is unable to concieve of a philosophy that is pro-life. Indeed, such philosophies are rare.

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I'm finding that the antagonism toward philosophy, in general, is waning, while the antagonism toward secularism is waxing. People are becoming more religious and this is partly the reason why they develop a respect for moral systems, moral ideas, moral principles. However, as much as they are growing more comfortable with the idea of an ideological system, they also believe that secular systems are inspired by the Devil.

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I'm finding that the antagonism toward philosophy, in general, is waning, while the antagonism toward secularism is waxing. People are becoming more religious and this is partly the reason why they develop a respect for moral systems, moral ideas, moral principles. However, as much as they are growing more comfortable with the idea of an ideological system, they also believe that secular systems are inspired by the Devil.

Agreed...Not only is fundamentalist Christianity growing but also so-called spirituality (i.e. New Age, Mother Earth worship, etc.). This seems to be especially true (and I'm only basing this on personal observation) with people who have for various reasons (usually in their childhood) been turned off by Christianity but refuse to drop mysticism from their lives.

If you want to see a rather humorous concretization of this trend, check out Penn & Teller's Showtime series Bullshit! It debunks "other-side" psychics, near-death experiences, fire-walkers, remote viewing and spiritualism in general.

I would be interested in discussing why people seem so reluctant to drop religion in favor of rationality. My guess (and I think Gary Hull said this in a lecture) is because religion has at least a 2,000-year head-start on Objectivism. Also, habit has a great amount of control over many people's lives.

What other factors lead to this rejection of reason..fear-mongering in the media perhaps leading to irrational fears which lead to the seeking of irrational answers?

Also, I think a lot of this anti-philosophy sentiment has to do with our old enemy the Mind-Body dichotomy.

Tongue-in-cheek addendum:

Oh and Mr. Swig, in the spirit of capitalism I am introducing a new service. For $49.95, I will REMOVE THOSE DEVILS THAT PLAGUE OUR PEOPLE..YEA VERILY..And for $19.95 a month, I will provide said customer with round-the-clock ANTI-DEVIL INFESTATION Monitoring. Not a bad deal right. Maybe see if I can make a deal with Symantec — NORTON ANTI-SATAN...yeah..

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You live and you Die everyone does what you think in your head makes no difference its what you do and experience that memories are made of here on earth and I doubt some Rand book is going to give you a warm fuzzy feeling. GET A LIFE :lol:

:lol:

I find it oh so ironic and hilarious that someone would come in, tell us to dispense with philosophy, and then proceed to offer philosophic advice. Love it!

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