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Shameful Display of Anarchy and Violence

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14 minutes ago, Easy Truth said:

It happened yesterday too. It's a very common thing.

A woman was shot but not killed too. She died soon after being shot.

And don't forget the Black Lives Matters events, they did the same thing so it should be okay.

Lots of stretching going on  … on every side of the issue.

What happened yesterday , what woman , BLM 'events' ? I'm sorry I don't understand what you're trying to convey here.

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Beware of axe handles. Anyone here approve of this behavior? Alas, it may well be that I'm the only one here with an axe, and I certainly do not approve of the attack on Jan. 6! Nor any of you guys making slight such behavior!

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Charles Bradford Smith, 25, of Shippensburg, Pennsylvania, pleaded guilty in the District of Columbia to conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding and assaulting, resisting, or impeding officers. According to court documents, Smith and a co-defendant, Marshall Neefe, communicated with each other and others on Facebook in the weeks preceding Jan. 6. For example, on Nov. 4, 2020, a day after Election Day, Neefe wrote to Smith, “Im getting ready to storm D.C.” The two subsequently shared their intentions and plans to travel to Washington on Jan. 6. In one message to Neefe, Smith wrote, “I can’t wait for DC!,” adding, “If it’s big enough we should all just storm the buildings … Seriously … I was talking to my Dad about how easy that would be with enough people.”

            Smith messaged others on social media to encourage them to come to Washington. He told a friend that he was buying axe handles and nailing American flags to them “so we can wave the flag but also have a giant beating stick just in case.” He also messaged another social media user that he had obtained a military-style knife that he planned to bring to Washington. On Jan. 6, both he and Neefe entered the Capitol grounds. They both participated in pushing a large metal sign frame – at least eight feet tall and 10 feet wide -- into a defensive line of officers attempting to prevent the crowd from further advancing on the west front plaza of the Capitol. Smith also encouraged rioters to keep forcing a door to the Capitol closed to keep law enforcement officers inside the building so that they could not respond to the riot unfolding outside.  After he left Washington on Jan. 6, he messaged others on Facebook, “Well we literally chased them out into hiding.  No certification lol,” referring to the members of Congress who needed to vacate their chambers during the certification process due to the violent breach of the Capitol.

            Neefe, 25, of Newville, Pennsylvania, pleaded guilty on May 3, 2022, to charges of conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding and assaulting, resisting, or impeding officers. He is to be sentenced on Aug. 17, 2022.

            Smith was arrested on Sept. 13, 2021. He is to be sentenced on Sept. 23, 2022. He faces a statutory maximum of 20 years in prison on the conspiracy charge and an additional eight years in prison on the assault charge. Both charges also carry potential financial penalties. A federal district court judge will determine any sentence after considering the U.S. Sentencing Guidelines and other statutory factors.

 

Keep on with the the lol's, models of stupidity in more ways than one.

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Brian Jackson, 47, and his brother, Adam Jackson, 42, both of Katy, Texas, are charged in the District of Columbia with assaulting, resisting, or impeding officers, civil disorder, and related offenses. They were arrested in Katy, Texas, and are expected to make their initial court appearances later today in the Southern District of Texas.

According to court documents, the Jacksons were among rioters illegally on the grounds of the Capitol on Jan. 6. At approximately 5 p.m. that day, they assaulted a line of law enforcement officers outside of the tunnel area of the Lower West Terrace. Brian Jackson hurled a flagpole at officers. Adam Jackson hurled a large red or orange object at officers and then charged at the line of officers with what appeared to be a U.S. Capitol Police riot shield.

In a video on Brian Jackson’s Facebook account, a voice is heard saying, “Adam got a god-damned shield, stole it from the f---- popo.” Later, Brian Jackson “unsent” several messages that he had sent bragging about his participation in the riot and sent multiple messages asking others to delete videos and messages he had sent. Adam Jackson, meanwhile, exchanged messages with another person on Jan. 10, 2021, in which he indicated he wanted to return to Washington for the inauguration. The other person asked Adam Jackson if he brought the riot shield home with him, and Jackson responded, “No, we left them. Cost to much to ship home lol.”

 

Speaking of stupidity, you defenders here of the woe-is-me, poor-'lil-white-guy set, always rationalizing rioters you sympathize with by switching the topic to violence that was perpetrated in association with BLM public assemblies should notice that if a patrolman stops me for speeding, it is no defense to cry "but everyone was speeding." Break the law, get caught, pay penalty. 

Edited by Boydstun
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1 hour ago, tadmjones said:

I'm sorry I don't understand what you're trying to convey here.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/18/politics/ashli-babbitt-capitol-hill-riot-death-invs/index.html

In summary, Jan 6 is something that should not be allowed to happen again. Any justification falls short. There are other ways to change this flawed government. Violence is not justified on either side. Be it conspired and on purpose or accidental.

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  • 7 months later...
On 1/19/2021 at 2:39 PM, Easy Truth said:

Yes and that is the key issue, THE ENTIRE SYSTEM is corrupt is what they believe. It's not just the election system, it ALL OF IT. This is what's hard to understand. When did it start? Why?

The obvious fact, just looking around us, we should be able see for the most part, we have a system that works. So there's some sort of evasion that's going on (caused by some intense blind anger).

This kind of (angry) thinking (or lack of thinking) is dangerous, I mean deadly dangerous.

https://harpers.org/archive/2012/11/how-to-rig-an-election/

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On 1/14/2021 at 9:26 AM, Boydstun said:

14 January 2021

We will crush their violence enacted under their feast of self-delusion and contempt for our Constitutional rule of law. The republic will prevail. The citizens on both sides are armed if it should come to that, but I expect the organized force of the American government will succeed in defense and in bringing the violators to commensurate penalty.

Tony: Indeed the American citizens overwhelmingly are not so stupid as to buy into Left-tarring of the bulk of Republicans as fascists and white-supremacist. And they are overwhelmingly not so stupid as to buy into the Right-tarring of the bulk of Democrats (and Biden/Harris) as socialists or communists.

Many of my relatives and friends voted for Donald Trump in 2020. Most of them have detested his behaviors with regard to the election result. What they had in common with Trump voters who bought and sold the BIG LIE of a purported Trump/Pence win of this national election being STOLEN was only a preference for that ticket over the Democratic one. It is not the case that those who showed up for the fateful Trump rally are representative of the majority of citizens who voted for Mr. Trump.

~American Republic Forever~

gettysburg_pennsylvania_cannon_tree_statue_sculpture_civil_war-600302.jpg

 

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The McCarthy/Carlson Jan 6 live video release has been quite revealing. So many vicious lies were told about Jan 6 these past two years. As with covid, watching them panic as their thoroughly bs narrative falls apart is great entertainment. I found Schumer's pearl-clutching particularly amusing.

Edited by Jon Letendre
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1 hour ago, Eiuol said:

I don't know man, any Q-liever like yourself doesn't have very much ability to distinguish fact from fiction. 

So, you've viewed the video and grokked the lies or will you keep leaning on psychologizing and ad hominem, per your usual?

Edited by Jon Letendre
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Jon and Tucker:

The circumstance that many citizens assembled in DC on 6 January 2021 and behaved peacefully, not trespassing nor damaging property or persons does not affect one whit the circumstance that many citizens did commit such crimes there that day. President Trump called off the riot on that day by calling out to the rioters to stop. For hours he waited to do that. I hope his body in not permitted to lie in state under the Rotunda when he deceases and is no longer able to call for his American "brown shirts" to intimidate through violence and threat of violence to the ends of having him in power and de facto abolition of our processes of constitutional, republican representative democracy. 

I had realized many years ago that Mr. Trump was a con artist, but I'd not realized until he was President that he had become our subjectivist-in-chief and that he was a narcissist* loving his personal power ultimately more than our country. The other evening I watched Mr. Trump in his new Presidential bid proclaim "I am your justice." Instantly my fist shot up with my reply: "'God is my justice.' in case you forgot." (A lesson for real persons of the Christian faith he'd not likely care to remember from that Dumas novel.) I am not a theist, but that is the way any audience member who is authentically a Christian should respond. Evil men in power, such as Mr. Trump (and the misleading bootlicker Mr. Carlson), will come and go. I expect our system to continue, as Paine envisioned: the Law is King.

 

 

Edited by Boydstun
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TJ, there is no King of the Law in America.

There were no supporters of BLM or Antifa storming the Capitol, notwithstanding Fox putting about that lie on that day and others repeating it on social media, all of them desperately trying to disbelieve the plain before their eyes and to distract others from who were these factions in violent revolt (however delusional) against America and who was their inspiration. (So Pres. Trump tells these rioters who were allegedly secretly BLM or Antifa to stand down, and immediately they did stand down? Anyone who honestly believed that is an idiot or devoid of objectivity.) 

I recall one woman exiting the violent scene, saying "The police pepper-sprayed me. We were just patriots." What an obscenity.

Edited by Boydstun
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The video shows Capitol Police walking the "shaman" into position in the House Chamber at the Capitol. They didn't guide him back outdoors and they didn't detain him for tresspass, but guided him into position in a restricted area. Watch the video and see for yourself how comfortable they were with each other.

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1 hour ago, Jon Letendre said:

The video shows Capitol Police walking the "shaman" into position in the House Chamber at the Capitol. They didn't guide him back outdoors and they didn't detain him for tresspass, but guided him into position in a restricted area. Watch the video and see for yourself how comfortable they were with each other.

Apparently Tucker Carlson cherry-picked from a lot of video,

Multiple sources indicate that the "shaman" entered the Capitol without permission, was repeatedly asked to leave, and was not accompanied the whole time.  But the police were badly outnumbered and couldn't do much until reinforcements arrived.

 

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55 minutes ago, Doug Morris said:

Multiple sources indicate that the "shaman" entered the Capitol without permission, was repeatedly asked to leave, and was not accompanied the whole time.  But the police were badly outnumbered and couldn't do much until reinforcements arrived.

What's the point of that argument anyway? Does it matter how "nice" some trespassers appear? Not really, the intent wasn't to just have a look around and nothing else. Does it matter if he was escorted or not? Not really, that doesn't mean the cop wasn't acting with bad intention (or not using his position of authority to support bad intentions). It's more fascinating that Tucker Carlson has tried to make a thing of it, after having it revealed that he is really all about ratings rather than truth with those publicly revealed text messages. 

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Stephen 

 There were hundreds of thousands of people in DC that day and prior. There were numerous rallies and events , there was even a permitted rally at the Capitol , the one Trump mentions in his speech.

Do you honestly believe all the attendees of these events we intent on committing an unarmed insurrection, but only a few in comparison ‘made it in’ , but before they could round up the legislators and fashion the gallows , the dear leader commanded them to stand down? Their murderous plot abandoned? 
 

I don’t doubt there were some in the group who may have planned and carried out creating mayhem , but identifying whatever happened that day as the carrying out of a planned insurrection is more than ‘ a little much’.

No one ‘stood down’ , the riot ended. Two protesters/rioters died , the day’s official proceedings were delayed , it was a shit show , not an insurrection.

 

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11 hours ago, tadmjones said:

I don’t doubt there were some in the group who may have planned and carried out creating mayhem , but identifying whatever happened that day as the carrying out of a planned insurrection is more than ‘ a little much’.

If you are stuck on the idea that it was not an insurrection, I can grant you that. But if you are arguing that in a country where there is still free speech (even if eroded), that violence is okay, then you're glamorizing chaos. There are protests and then there are violent protests. Once chaos starts, an orderly shift toward respect for rights does NOT happen. I have lived through a violent revolution, the very best people do not, in fact, rise to the top.

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8 hours ago, Easy Truth said:

If you are stuck on the idea that it was not an insurrection

If by insurrection you mean where everybody involved is working together in a concerted effort in the same plot, then no, it was not. But no one was trying to claim it was a single concerted effort. If you want to get pedantic, then anyone who entered the capital was engaging in insurrectionary activity. But we don't need any kind of apologism, everyone who bothered to break in was doing something treasonous or insurrectionary to some degree. 

Of course, some people are more liable than others. Just don't fall for the trick where you get something like "it wasn't a giant organized effort led by Trump, so it really wasn't anything more than excited people".  

Edited by Eiuol
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On 3/9/2023 at 9:34 PM, tadmjones said:

Stephen 

There were hundreds of thousands of people in DC that day and prior. There were numerous rallies and events , there was even a permitted rally at the Capitol , the one Trump mentions in his speech.

Do you honestly believe all the attendees of these events we intent on committing an unarmed insurrection, . . .

. . . it was a . . . , not an insurrection.

Where did I say that anyone was engaged in insurrection in the Jan. 6 breach of the Capitol? 

Edited by Boydstun
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Boydstun

"I hope his body in not permitted to lie in state under the Rotunda when he deceases and is no longer able to call for his American "brown shirts" to intimidate through violence and threat of violence to the ends of having him in power and de facto abolition of our processes of constitutional, republican representative democracy. "

Would not insurrection be a method by which the abolition of our processes of constitutional, republican representative democracy could come about, and at that point it would not be de facto , it would be de jure , in that a charge of insurrection would be brought. I do not think an insurrection, an abolition of the constitutional processes can be' de facto'.

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Tad,

(source – Black's Law Dictionary)

Incitement of resistance to lawful authority can rise to the level of sedition under American law, and it does not have to be insurrection to be sedition. Seditious Conspiracy Convictions

Insurrection is a second sort of sedition. An insurgent is one who opposes the execution of law by force of arms, or who rises in revolt against the constituted authorities. Insurrection consists of any combined resistance in the lawful authority of the state, with intent to the denial thereof, when the same is manifested, or intended to be manifested, by acts of violence.

"Rebel" is often taken as an insurgent who engages in extralegal resistance to the government in a cause unjust and untimely. So we would say that Confederates in the American Civil War were rebels, whereas the French Underground Resistance (e.g. Sartre) against the German occupation would be only insurrectionists.

I'd say an insurrection that succeeds in halting a government becomes de jure if they are in position, capable of enforcement, to make the replacement laws, including one making their violent inception lawful.

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