Doug Morris Posted February 22, 2022 Report Share Posted February 22, 2022 13 hours ago, Dupin said: do you want to say he does not think? Not as much as most people, and most people don't think enough. And he is very erratic. 13 hours ago, Dupin said: Do you remember Rand writing that if anything saves America it will be her sense of life? And isn’t – this is me now – a sense of life in large part emotional? I would say sense of life is entirely emotional. It is also important. Emotions more generally are important as fuel and can be clues. But we must still make our decisions rationally. In addition, Trump is more dishonest than most politicians and is motivated more by a craving for personal reassurance than by any conception of what is moral or practical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadmjones Posted February 22, 2022 Report Share Posted February 22, 2022 What is an example of Trump's dishonesty as chief executive ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Morris Posted February 22, 2022 Report Share Posted February 22, 2022 27 minutes ago, tadmjones said: What is an example of Trump's dishonesty as chief executive ? It rained during Trump's inaugural address. Then, at a celebratory ball later that day, Trump told the crowd that the rain "just never came" until he finished talking and went inside, at which point "it poured." Fact check: Trump falsely claims US has 'tremendous control' of the coronavirus By Daniel Dale Updated 9:35 PM ET, Sun March 15, 2020 Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump made yet another false claim to minimize the severity of the coronavirus crisis, claiming Sunday that the virus is under "control." Trump's claim at a White House briefing -- "It's a very contagious virus. It's incredible. But it's something we have tremendous control of" -- was sharply at odds with the assessment of public health experts, including one who appeared with him at the same briefing. Facts First: Experts say the US does not have the virus even close to contained. Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said in his own comments after Trump left the room: "The worst is yet ahead for us. It is how we respond to that challenge that is going to determine what the ultimate end point is going to be. We have a very, very critical point now." Trump has repeatedly claimed, falsely, to have the virus under control. He said in late January, soon after the US announced its first confirmed case, that "we have it totally under control." He said in late February, when the number of confirmed US cases was in the low dozens, that "we have it very much under control in this country." Boydstun 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Morris Posted February 22, 2022 Report Share Posted February 22, 2022 Trump tweeted in 2019 that Alabama was one of the states at greater risk from Hurricane Dorian than had been initially forecast. The federal weather office in Birmingham then tweeted that, actually, Alabama would be unaffected by the storm. Not great, but fixable fast with a simple White House correction. Trump, however, is so congenitally unwilling to admit error that he embarked on an increasingly farcical campaign to prove that his incorrect Alabama tweet was actually correct, eventually showcasing a hurricane map that was crudely altered with a Sharpie. The slapstick might have been funny had White House officials not leaped into action behind the scenes to try to pressure federal weather experts into saying he was right and they were wrong. The saga proved that Trump was not some lone liar: he was backed by an entire powerful apparatus willing to fight for his fabrications. The most ridiculous subject of a lie: The Boy Scouts When I emailed the Boy Scouts of America in 2017 about Trump's claim that "the head of the Boy Scouts" had called him to say that his bizarrely political address to the Scouts' National Jamboree was "the greatest speech that was ever made to them," I didn't expect a reply. One of the hardest things about fact checking Trump was that a lot of people he lied about did not think it was in their interest to be quoted publicly contradicting a vengeful president. The Boy Scouts did. A senior Scouts source -- a phrase I never expected to have to type as a political reporter in Washington, DC -- confirmed to me that no call ever happened. Yep, the President of the United States was lying about the Boy Scouts. The ugliest smear lie: Rep. Ilhan Omar supports al Qaeda At a White House event in 2019, Trump grossly distorted a 2013 quote from Rep. Ilhan Omar to try to get his supporters to believe that the Minnesota Democrat had expressed support for the terrorist group al Qaeda. Trump went on to deliver additional bigoted attacks against Omar in the following months. But it's hard to imagine a more vile lie for the President to tell about a Muslim official -- who had already been getting death threats -- than a smear that makes her sound pro-terrorist. When he told reporters on Air Force One in 2018 that he did not know about a $130,000 payment to porn performer Stormy Daniels and that he did not know where his then-attorney Michael Cohen got the money for the payment, it was both audacious -- Trump knew, because he had personally reimbursed Cohen -- and kind of conventional: the President was lying to try to get himself out of a tawdry scandal. The biggest lie by omission: Trump ended family separation Much of Trump's lying was clumsy, half-baked. Some of it was almost art. Here's what he told NBC's Chuck Todd in 2019 about his widely controversial policy of separating migrant parents from their children at the border: "You know, under President Obama you had separation. I was the one that ended it." Yes, Trump signed a 2018 order to end the family separation policy. What he did not mention to Todd is that what he had ended was his own policy -- a plan announced by his own attorney general that had made family separation standard rather than occasional, as it had been under Obama. All of Trump's words in those two sentences to Todd were accurate in themselves. But he was lying because of what he left out. When Trump claimed in September that Biden would destroy protections for people with pre-existing health conditions -- though the Obama-Biden administration created the protections, though the protections were overwhelmingly popular, though Biden was running on preserving them, and though Trump himself had tried repeatedly to weaken them -- Trump was not merely lying but turning reality upside down. Trump could have told a perfectly good factual story about the Veterans Choice health care program Obama signed into law in 2014: it wasn't good enough, so he replaced it with a more expansive program he signed into law in 2018. That's not the story he did tell -- whether out of policy ignorance, a desire to erase Obama's legacy, or simply because he is a liar. Instead, he claimed over and over -- more than 160 times before I lost count -- that he is the one who got the Veterans Choice program passed after other presidents tried and failed for years. And why not stretch? He knew he probably wouldn't be challenged by a press corps drowning in other Trump drama. It wasn't until August 2020 that he was asked about the lie to his face. He promptly left the room. lie: Trump was once named Michigan's Man of the Year Trump has never lived in Michigan. Why would he have been named Michigan's Man of the Year years before his presidency? He wouldn't have been. He wasn't. And yet this lie he appeared to have invented in the final week of his 2016 campaign became a staple of his 2020 campaign, repeated at Michigan rally after rally. It's so illustrative because it makes so little sense. Boydstun 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Morris Posted February 22, 2022 Report Share Posted February 22, 2022 President Trump jump-started his career in politics with a patent lie, falsely claiming that President Obama was not a U.S.-born citizen of the United States. Trump perpetuated this racist lie for years, knowing that he had nothing to back up his claim. Trump falsely claimed that President Obama had bugged Trump Tower. 4 Trump falsely claimed America pays the highest taxes of any nation. 5 Trump falsely claimed tax reform will cost him a fortune. Trump falsely claimed that he had signed more legislation than any of his predecessors had at that point; in fact, he had signed fewer bills than any president since Eisenhower in the 1950s. 6 Trump falsely claimed 53 times that the tax plan under consideration in Congress “was the largest tax cut in the history of the United States.” 7 Treasury Department data revealed it would rank 8th. Trump falsely claimed that the Affordable Care Act is “essentially dead.” 8 It is not. Trump’s lies and false statements have done immense damage in our country and around the world. His repeated use of the term “fake news” to communicate his lies is being used, according to Senator John McCain, “by autocrats to silence reporters, undermine political opponents, stave off media scrutiny and mislead citizens.” 10 Trump has undermined our institutions and fueled division and rage. He has undermined the right of citizens to know what their government is doing and to work from a common base of information. He has subverted our nation’s credibility and effectiveness on the world stage. He has made clear to our allies and adversaries alike that his word can never be trusted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadmjones Posted February 22, 2022 Report Share Posted February 22, 2022 (edited) "Trump’s lies and false statements have done immense damage in our country and around the world. His repeated use of the term “fake news” to communicate his lies is being used, according to Senator John McCain, “by autocrats to silence reporters, undermine political opponents, stave off media scrutiny and mislead citizens.” 10 Trump has undermined our institutions and fueled division and rage. He has undermined the right of citizens to know what their government is doing and to work from a common base of information. He has subverted our nation’s credibility and effectiveness on the world stage. He has made clear to our allies and adversaries alike that his word can never be trusted." The news is fake , they claimed Trump was a Russian agent based on fake information from sitting members of Congress who claimed to the media they had seen evidence of collusion. The evidence they claimed to see was false information knowingly pushed by the his political opponents and the preceding administration to the DOJ . The claim was Trump was more dishonest and therefore presented a greater danger to the country, his brash hyperbole and obvious exaggeration was irritating and sometimes counter productive , but more so than other politicians ? In a word no , he ran on building a wall, increasing defense spending and removal of govt regulation, those things he did or tried to do , he was dangerous to DC's status quo and to the DOJ and the intelligence agencies manipulation and control. Btw, I love you picked out that he 'dissed' Ilhan Omar, her brother husband should kick his ass. ps A claim that a person is not by some legal definition a natural born citizen , is a racist claim how ? Edited February 22, 2022 by tadmjones ps added Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterSwig Posted February 23, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2022 On 2/21/2022 at 2:54 PM, Dupin said: About how Binswanger voted in 2016... Thank you. During the podcast I wasn't sure whether Binswanger voted for Trump in 2020. He did, but quickly said in January 2021 that he wishes he didn't. Quote What about my last-minute, super-reluctant support of Trump in this election? I wish I could rescind my vote. My reasoning was to defend against the Democrats’ court-packing intentions (which, you recall, Biden tacitly endorsed). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whYNOT Posted February 23, 2022 Report Share Posted February 23, 2022 (edited) On 2/22/2022 at 6:14 PM, Doug Morris said: Trump’s lies and false statements have done immense damage in our country and around the world. His repeated use of the term “fake news” to communicate his lies is being used, according to Senator John McCain, “by autocrats to silence reporters, undermine political opponents, stave off media scrutiny and mislead citizens.” 10 Trump has undermined our institutions and fueled division and rage. He has undermined the right of citizens to know what their government is doing and to work from a common base of information. He has subverted our nation’s credibility and effectiveness on the world stage. He has made clear to our allies and adversaries alike that his word can never be trusted. "Around the world", funny enough, he was popular and respected. He was also believed, if not by his every word (it seems he found it necessary to lie to the liars around him) - but by his intentions and actions. A bully was needed to take on the bullies at home and abroad, is how masses of 'common people' - not obviously the liberal elitists - accepted him. You were not going to hear from them in the media... The "fake news" I picked up on from early, near the end of Obama's terms, suspecting the MSM were driving a deceitful, corrupt, ideological agenda. And good on Trump, for pulling the US out of one-sided, sacrificial encumbrances and treaties. OF course, those affected anti-American 'allies' woudn't trust him! The true allies of America could and did. I found at least half of condemnations of Trump, in O'ist circles too, cleverly self-justified by "he did this or that - !", were disingenuous. It's the gut feelings he evoked, i.e. unempathic and crude, which they reacted to. Mixing aesthetic sensations and politics, not a good idea. The sanctimonious, kindly-looking empaths elected to power today on 'feelings', are turning out the big despots. Edited February 23, 2022 by whYNOT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Morris Posted February 23, 2022 Report Share Posted February 23, 2022 On 2/22/2022 at 3:37 PM, tadmjones said: "Trump’s lies and false statements have done immense damage in our country and around the world. His repeated use of the term “fake news” to communicate his lies is being used, according to Senator John McCain, “by autocrats to silence reporters, undermine political opponents, stave off media scrutiny and mislead citizens.” 10 Trump has undermined our institutions and fueled division and rage. He has undermined the right of citizens to know what their government is doing and to work from a common base of information. He has subverted our nation’s credibility and effectiveness on the world stage. He has made clear to our allies and adversaries alike that his word can never be trusted." The news is fake , they claimed Trump was a Russian agent The quotation can be true even if Trump is not a Russian agent and does not depend on or require any such accusation. On 2/22/2022 at 3:37 PM, tadmjones said: A claim that a person is not by some legal definition a natural born citizen , is a racist claim how ? Not explicitly racist, but probably motivated by racism. It was made without any real grounds. Has any similar accusation been made against a white president? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Morris Posted February 23, 2022 Report Share Posted February 23, 2022 42 minutes ago, whYNOT said: It's the gut feelings he evoked, i.e. unempathic and crude, which they reacted to. Not only did he evoke such feelings, he encouraged them and mixed them with politics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadmjones Posted February 23, 2022 Report Share Posted February 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, Doug Morris said: The quotation can be true even if Trump is not a Russian agent and does not depend on or require any such accusation. Not explicitly racist, but probably motivated by racism. It was made without any real grounds. Has any similar accusation been made against a white president? I would bet the motivation was anti communist. JFK was denigrated for being Catholic. Did other Presidents have foreign nationals as one parent ? Most recently there was question of Ted Cruz’s pedigree , was that racially motivated ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Morris Posted February 23, 2022 Report Share Posted February 23, 2022 1 hour ago, whYNOT said: I found at least half of condemnations of Trump, in O'ist circles too, cleverly self-justified by "he did this or that - !", were disingenuous. It's the gut feelings he evoked, i.e. unempathic and crude, which they reacted to. Trump's most egregious and destructive misdeed was using a combination of lies and appeals to emotion to create terrible misinformation and divisiveness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whYNOT Posted February 23, 2022 Report Share Posted February 23, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Doug Morris said: Trump's most egregious and destructive misdeed was using a combination of lies and appeals to emotion to create terrible misinformation and divisiveness. I think we live on different planets. Misinformation and divisiveness? Those predated Trump. And after him. How could I see them coming up in America earlier, and you not? Oh and the "racist" canard. Nowadays one has to show extra-anti-racism to not be stigmatized 'racist'. That's the person who comes to view everything as 'race' connected, therefore is covertly racist. The real non-racists literally don't see colors of people and take them as individuals. Like Trump had the many blacks who voted for him. I had some experience with a SA resort tycoon, (a good friend of DT, I found out) to whom everyone of any shade in any job - is 'on my team' and gets treated like royalty. Such a tycoon deals familiarly with foreign presidents and PM's of ethnic groups all over the world. Racist? Ha. Edited February 24, 2022 by whYNOT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whYNOT Posted February 23, 2022 Report Share Posted February 23, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Doug Morris said: Not only did he evoke such feelings, he encouraged them and mixed them with politics. Yes. I didn't say he is a perfect angel and man of great intellect. Actually, he was a bad politician in that sense. (He wasn't a politico/diplomat at all). That was part of the unease people felt about him. The 'good' and practiced career pols know better how to 'play to' their public, and soothe or inspire them. Edited February 23, 2022 by whYNOT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Morris Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 16 hours ago, whYNOT said: Misinformation and divisiveness? Those predated Trump. And after him. Yes, but he made them a lot worse. *** Saying Obama is not a native-born American is a vicious lie, whatever motivates it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Morris Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 19 hours ago, whYNOT said: Actually, he was a bad politician in that sense. (He wasn't a politico/diplomat at all). That was part of the unease people felt about him. The 'good' and practiced career pols know better how to 'play to' their public, and soothe or inspire them. Trump is a demagogue. This makes him very effective at firing up a base. It also made him a poor President. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whYNOT Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) On 2/24/2022 at 9:50 PM, Doug Morris said: Trump is a demagogue. This makes him very effective at firing up a base. It also made him a poor President. I do not look for perfection from political leaders. What did Objectivists expect from him that they didn't from other presidents? (And even the present one). I detected a lot of double standards, things they barely applied previously to others. Eg: No President is able to sign laissez-faire and individual rights into law with the sweep of his pen. The culture/philosophy of a majority of the people will be the prerequisite for those. A 'leader' exists in a context, a time and place - and crucially, *who* make up his/her electorate. He cannot deviate too far from them. Within context, in easier times or crises and emergencies, there are better and worse leaders. E.g. an appeasing, nice old guy like Neville Chamberlain could not have summoned the resolve of the British to fight against the Germans, it needed a unlikable and rude Churchill (who later wasn't a particularly great peacetime PM), else England would have been conquered. If you have noticed, DM, this period has been an ideological battle for the West waged by a technocratic, super wealthy, world uber-class embedded by most Governments, which would have America delivered 'for absorption' into the greater 'global community'. They have intellectuals who condemned the nation's sovereignty by equating it with 'Nationalism'. That worked, and many people have been persuaded by the ploy. Incidents like Brexit and the Trump election were anomalies. Trump was the only one electable and who had a sense of the way things were going and put a partial block on those plans, and of course, was duly called 'Fascist'. Is a politician leader moving towards individual freedoms or away from them? Very generally and non-specifically. That's all I look for and means you don't get stuck on minor details, like personality and aesthetic feelings, and his erratic or self-contradictory words and acts. Where is he headed, what, overall does he intend? Tellingly, Trump was vilified, ridiculed and distorted by the toxic media who constructed an image that put him in the worst light and made sure that he failed to get his message out truthfully - all to promote their ideology. This is irrefutable, his political enemies at home would ~far~ rather he failed, than the US and people would be the slightest bit better off. What does that say about them? Edited February 25, 2022 by whYNOT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Morris Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 One reason there has been more discussion of how much of a pro-freedom president Trump has been is that he has been touted as a pro-freedom president. In terms of deeds, how do you think he compares to, say, Reagan? 37 minutes ago, whYNOT said: If you have noticed, DM, this period has been an ideological battle for the West waged by a technocratic, super wealthy, world uber-class embedded in most Governments, which would have America delivered 'for absorption' into the greater 'global community'. Can you be more specific? 40 minutes ago, whYNOT said: Is a politician leader moving towards individual freedoms or away from them? Very generally and non-specifically. I don't see much difference between Trump and other Republicans here. 48 minutes ago, whYNOT said: This is irrefutable, his political enemies at home would ~far~ rather he failed, than the US and people would be the slightest better off. What does that say about them? Both sides in our current politics seem more interested in making the other side fail than in helping the country. *** Trump's lie or delusion about a stolen election has put our system of orderly transfers of power in danger. If that is wrecked, we will probably end up with force being used to decide who's in power. The contest of force will be very destructive, and whoever wins will probably use force to keep power. This will be very destructive of freedom and rights. *** Recall that this exchange started with a discussion about whether Ayn Rand would view Trump with contempt. I think a case can be made for this. Of course she is no longer around to tell us, so there is guesswork involved in any case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whYNOT Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Doug Morris said: I don't see much difference between Trump and other Republicans here. Both sides in our current politics seem more interested in making the other side fail than in helping the country. *** Yup, I guess the "side" that needs and wants greater control of the people is going to be unforgiving to the other side that mostly wants personal liberty, freedom of speech, etc. Equally, the side that most wants liberty ...etc. There doesn't seem to be any compromise between them possible or, certainly, desirable. A positive note, I think that independent spirit of the majority of Americans across party lines will reassert itself. There seem many Democrat voters who are suffering buyer's remorse, seeing their Party rapidly move so far radically Left, unimaginable earlier. They are the many who voted against Trump not *for* this new lot. The coming political change should split the hard Left off into a minority. Edited February 25, 2022 by whYNOT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whYNOT Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Doug Morris said: *** Recall that this exchange started with a discussion about whether Ayn Rand would view Trump with contempt. I think a case can be made for this. Of course she is no longer around to tell us, so there is guesswork involved in any case. Given Rand's total grasp of all that's involved, her opinion could probably surprise some. A little inferential guesswork from me. And if you could communicate to her what, ideologically, and who the opposition to Trump would be, and is?!! Makes it no contest, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Morris Posted February 26, 2022 Report Share Posted February 26, 2022 Perhaps Ayn Rand would have contempt for both sides. I recall there was at least one election in which she said it was probably better not to vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterSwig Posted March 4, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2022 We interviewed Roger Mayhem from the "Healthy Debates" group on the Clubhouse app. He's an "unapologetic capitalist" and Rand fan since reading Atlas Shrugged in the '90s. He's built up a following and a debating community on Clubhouse. We talk to him about Clubhouse and debating and Rand and much more. Check it out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterSwig Posted March 12, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2022 We interviewed Alexandra York, author of both fiction and nonfiction. We focus on her latest book, Soul Celebrations and Spiritual Snacks, which presents her idea of secular spirituality and how to practice it. We also cover some of her articles published at Newsmax, dealing with the battle of ideas against cancel culture and the woke left. Check it out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadmjones Posted March 13, 2022 Report Share Posted March 13, 2022 On 2/15/2022 at 4:29 PM, Doug Morris said: Certainly not an outcome that my friends and I don't like. (It's hard to say what that would even be, given Trump's serious flaws.) Not biased people, who don't understand what they're seeing, spying on election workers and jumping to conclusions. The burden is on those who claim fraud to present evidence and let the rest of us evaluate it. Solid evidence of ballot stuffing or of waylaying legitimate ballots, in sufficient quantity to affect the outcome, would be evidence. A discrepancy between a recount and an original count, in sufficient quantity to affect the outcome, would be tentative evidence. https://voterga.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/How-Georgia-election-results-were-electronically-manipulated-legislators.pdf Things like this ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Morris Posted March 13, 2022 Report Share Posted March 13, 2022 2 hours ago, tadmjones said: Things like this ? If what your link says is correct, that is cause for concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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