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How do I cope with a negative social environment?

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She found Roark.
So you don't believe that Roark is possible in real life? What she found out- through Roark- was that evil is metaphysically impotent. Now you need to discover this for yourself. If you need help, open a new thread and ask the question. I'm sure others far more qualified than me will provide you with a detailed answer.

Zak

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She found Roark.

A great thing about the 'net is that it can provide mechanisms, which are constantly growing, for rational people to find other rational people. That includes romantically. And as it turns out, statistically there are simply more male Objectivists than female. That puts the odds in your favor of finding a romantic partner. And you might be surprised at how elevated your outlook on life can be if you have that special person in your life. It becomes a lot easier to appreciate the old quasi-Latin phrase: Illegitimus non carborundum. (Don't let the bastards grind you down.)

And personally, I doubt you'll find the highest quality people, statistically, in Louisiana. A combination of French influence with the worst elements of welfare statism, is a pretty ugly swamp, uglier than the natural ones down there. Consider moving. :P

If you can swing it financially (and, they used to, and perhaps still do, have student scholarships), try to attend the next Objectivist conference. You'll get plenty of attention and a continuous stream of opportunities to interact with very intelligent people.

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A great thing about the 'net is that it can provide mechanisms, which are constantly growing, for rational people to find other rational people. That includes romantically. And as it turns out, statistically there are simply more male Objectivists than female. That puts the odds in your favor of finding a romantic partner. And you might be surprised at how elevated your outlook on life can be if you have that special person in your life. It becomes a lot easier to appreciate the old quasi-Latin phrase: Illegitimus non carborundum. (Don't let the bastards grind you down.)

And personally, I doubt you'll find the highest quality people, statistically, in Louisiana. A combination of French influence with the worst elements of welfare statism, is a pretty ugly swamp, uglier than the natural ones down there. Consider moving. :P

If you can swing it financially (and, they used to, and perhaps still do, have student scholarships), try to attend the next Objectivist conference. You'll get plenty of attention and a continuous stream of opportunities to interact with very intelligent people.

Conference? Where are those? And when?

I just got out of a very messy and negative relationship with someone, the details of which aren't worth discussing. I have a problem with putting people on a pedestal and then being to much of a blind idiot to see that I was wrong. So basically, I'm a lonely, anti-social art student with a part-time job that takes up all my weekends, and when I'm not working I'm usually doing artwork, huddled up on a bench at Waffle house with a cold cup of coffee at 3 AM. Like right now.

I suppose it's not very conducive to meeting people.

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Ravane:

I felt alot like you coming out of High School/University (I did quite a few external units at University, as the whole drunk/partying thing was never going to be my scene), also felt like this in the earlier stages of my working life. I really got to the stage where I thought the possibility of finding anyone interesting in my area was 0 to none.

I now have a job amongst productive interesting people, it is amazing what a difference it makes to ones social outlook. These people actually get enthusiastic about the work they are doing and are quite happy to share there enthusiasm.

Although it may seem a lifetime away, if you follow your ideals you will be in a situation you love sooner than you think!

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I know I am ranting, and that it's barely on-topic at that. My question is, how can you stand this, any of this? How can you watch all these things happen without wanting to scream?

I cant stand it. I havent, and I wont. I want my city back! (bosstones song)

Youll find that the better you become, the more they will hate you. They see you, and it shows them what they gave up on, what they decided not to become. Not in the sense of careers or specific goals, but in terms of standards. They dont want to win, they want you to lose.

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But are we compromising when we just stand back and watch things happen?

Allow me to elaborate. Is the fact that people like you and I who are capable of accomplishing things supporting the exsistence of those who won't by default?

This is why I feel guilty getting any kind of job. Id want nothing more to produce and create. And would be damn good at it, too. In Atlas Shrugged, they disapeared to the valley and abandoned the other world, and let it burn itself out, solving the problem. Rand's solution would have worked around the time she wrote the book. It couldnt now.

Essentially we are trapped. Black markets or underground societies couldnt last long, with the methods of survelance and information transfer in use today. There are also too many half-ways, people who produce a lot but couldnt leave the world behind, or (allow themselves to) understand why they should.

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Conference? Where are those? And when?
Here is a link. The 2006 Summer one is in Boston, MA. Not much detail on the web-site yet.

I think some of the replies you've got are too negative. "Too" in the sense that they are unrealistically so. In one important sense there is more good than bad in the world. Otherwise, we would not see all the progress that we do. Sure it could be better, much better; but, we're not heading for disaster here.

However, one does not deal with "the world at large", but with specific people: friends, bosses, co-workers. Most of one's adult life centers around one's work. One can seek and find places of employment where bosses are rational at work -- regardless of what they do on Sunday, or what their politics may be. And, there is the option of being one's own boss as well. There are also enough compartmentalized folk with enough of a "rational compartment" to make for casual friendships.

The real difficulty comes in finding close friends. That's not so easy. One bit of good news there is that there are ways to seek those out. The other bit of good news is that you don't need too many close friends. One or two work just fine. [And, they do not even have to be Objectivists!]

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  • 5 months later...
This is why I feel guilty getting any kind of job. Id want nothing more to produce and create. And would be damn good at it, too. In Atlas Shrugged, they disapeared to the valley and abandoned the other world, and let it burn itself out, solving the problem. Rand's solution would have worked around the time she wrote the book. It couldnt now.

Essentially we are trapped. Black markets or underground societies couldnt last long, with the methods of survelance and information transfer in use today. There are also too many half-ways, people who produce a lot but couldnt leave the world behind, or (allow themselves to) understand why they should.

I can empathize largely with most of the sentiment expressed above. Makes me sick to pay taxes. I buy quite a bit of metal in addition to personal expenses on which I get charged sales tax. In addition to the state and city sales tax, I am charged an additional 1.2% RTD(regional transportation dept.) tax for every purchase of any kind that I make in denver. These are the bus drivers who are still upset at "only" making $20/hour for sitting in a chair. I have taken the bus, maybe 3 times in my life(never in denver) and have spent well over $1000 this year to support these welfare buses alone. And that is one small tax of one small part of the city government. Add state and federal income taxes, property taxes, 15% for social security and medicare alone, then add hidden taxes like inflation,regulations that increase costs of things you purchase, permits, and fees, and I'm am probably working 2 days or better towards my destruction for every day I'm working for my own benefit. So in other words, I am argueing from a place of experience and pain here. I am on the worst side you can be on in the welfare state we live in and I tell ya, it doesn't matter a flip. By withdrawing into yourself, avoiding other people, refusing to produce, you can only hurt yourself. All that matters is that you can produce; you can live. Capitalism; gaining self-esteem have everything to do with production and nothing(except what you need to exist) with consumption.

Think of it this way. If you lived in a capitalist utopia where all of the children were above average, made a million dollars in gold coins, then got robbed of every dime by a thief, would you loose your self-esteem with the money? Hopefully not, but that's what you do to yourself by refusing to act. If you don't produce you don't gain self-esteem and that is the real crime that the looters commit. They take away the tangible part of the motivation for production which takes away(by causing it to never be created) the self-esteem of the people that matter. Don't let them do that to you. And don't forget that no one in galt's gulch ever stopped producing. Galt still built motors, francisco still dug mines, ragnar still taught philosophy. All that really changed was that they stopped sharing their produce with the people they didn't like. So produce to as great of an extent as you can, and if you really despise them that much, spend everything you make to oppose them.

And as far as galt's gulch not being possible, I am not so sure. You might just need to be a little creative. $1 in a presidential campaign buys around 7 votes. Not sure about exchange rates, but if you were to put $1,000,000 in to an election in some low population 3rd world country, say uganda with 3 million inhabitants, you would probably be able to buy the election for a puppet and then use him to establish a free trade zone or maybe the whole country where you could invite corporations and people to live tax free(not counting the million a year you would need to win the elections). Just a thought...whatever you do though, don't give up because of them. This is what that phrase "evil is impotent" means. Obviously them taking my money and using it to buy guns to take my money and pay looter bus drivers isn't an example of them being impotent. Quite the opposite in fact. The way in which they are impotent is on the effect they can have on me internally. They can only make me( and you) stop producing if we let them. So don't!

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I too can highly recommend the Objectivist Conferences; it's a great opportunity to hear brilliant lectures while meeting rational, intellectual, and benevolent people.

It's also welcome relief from irrational and stupid teachers/professors.

By the way, Ellen Kenner, Harry Binswanger, Yaron Brook, and Craig Biddle have great senses of humor.

Edited by LaszloWalrus
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I recently got stationed on Tyndall AFB in Panama City, FL. The only people I have contact with are my coworkers and their only interests seem to be getting drunk and going to clubs and bars. It doesn't really help that Panama City doesn't really have much culture.

Lance J Abbe

Being a sailor aboard the USS ABRAHAM LINCOLN I can sympathize with your situation. I’m in a position where I live in very close quarters with some people I’d prefer not to. My ship (affectionately called “ABE”) is 1,149’ long and is home to over 5,000 personnel. Currently were floating in South East Asia where I must eat, sleep and work with the same people 24/7 for months at a time. Even when I leave the ship in a foreign port, I have to have someone with me at all times (its called the “buddy” system). It’s very hard to be on your own here, and I have to have an infinite amount of patience due to the extenuating circumstances. I find that the best ways to escape is through my work, music (an ipod is essential) and reading. I also keep a journal of the days events and various thoughts. It’s also a really good time to study various things like art, history and philosophy. One of my goals this underway is to re-read all of Ayn Rand’s novels.

I find that although I don’t particularly have any one here that I would call a friend, there are many people I do share various interest with. There are various groups of people that share my fondness for cigars or enjoy following the same sports and teams. I wouldn’t necessarily call these people friends but it fulfills some of my social needs and keeps me on good terms with my shipmates.

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Wow. I had no idea that this thread had continued for so long. I haven't been on the forum for a long time now. I do appreciate everyone's feedback. Just as an update, things are much better here. I've found some people that I genuinely enjoy being around. It doesn't make living here ideal by any stretch, but it helps.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Old thread, but I got something to add.

(1) Having, basically, given up on people and shying away from any social life.

(2) Really having better things to do.

I choose both approaches at the same time. Spending time in regular society is just a waste of my time and effort. I don't have to be around people , just b/c I happened to be born among them. (Just like you can move from one country to another, if the other is better)

But my anger at them is, too. So I gave it up and minded my own business.
On, no, anger is a tool. If used properly, it will give you strength and concentration. I use it to keep myself on track about things in the world. Minding my own business is just what I do. I was born on this planet, but have to leave among dumbasses? This is definitely my business. It's my business when I have spent tons of time to find people I'd like to be around. Not to mention that even as I find them, the number is still too small for me.

Well, you always have the opportunity to use your lifetime to fight this stupidity by finding a way to reach people.
Now, here I agree, though our method might differ. One of the ways I see as tackling the world's stupidity, is by tackling my own sphere of influence, which for me means building up a closed group of like-minded people, who will in turn do the same. This is why I joined this forum, and why I will spread the word about it to my friends (more like people I don't find stupid). I find this approach really effective, because the effect of finding like-minded people for me is very satisfying and rewarding. It's like getting a cookie for good behavior. Sweet, did I mention I like this forum? Haha
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I know I am ranting, and that it's barely on-topic at that. My question is, how can you stand this, any of this? How can you watch all these things happen without wanting to scream?

It's not worth wasting hatred on those you can't respect.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I've found that there is an article "How Does One Lead a Rational Life in an Irrational Society?" in "The Virtue of Selfishness" by Ayn Rand.

I've not read it yet, but will soon.

EDIT: there is a discussion on it, on our forums: http://forum.ObjectivismOnline.com/index.p...aded&show=&st=&

Edited by Olex
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  • 2 weeks later...

This is a great thread for me to stumble upon. I appreciate everybody's input. I struggle with this as well. The book "How I found freedom in an unfree world" by Harry Browne is one that I found helpful to focusing my life on my own happiness in this context.

Sometimes I feel so miserable when I see just how unrational everybody is. And there doesn't seem to be a voice of reason out there at all. For every 1 objectivist voice in the media, there's 10,000 liberal socialists and 1,000 ignorant christians. All I have is the band Rush and South Park. :)

I am fueled by a strong desire to express my views and have my voice heard. But every time I do, it ends up being a very negative experience. I've almost completely given up expressing my political views and arguing with people because of it. It just seems like everybody I talk to hates freedom, hates capitalism, and by extension hates reason. I'm a good debater, and quite polite and sensitive I feel, but it always takes a huge toll on my own happiness that I try to stay away.

The media gets duped by every unfounded liberal claim out there which eventually becomes "common knowledge". (This is especially true of the greens' claims.) So I don't watch the news and I stay away from shows that push a political agenda. But it's everywhere. Political propoganda even penetrates into sports!

I try hard to shut it all out and not let it affect my personal happiness, but I'm so driven by a desire to make the world a better place and convert people to reason that I keep walking right into more emotionally traumatic situations.

Does anyone have any good advice for me? Any licensed counsellors out there? :lol:

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Does anyone have any good advice for me?
Introspection. Use it to figure out why you feel a need to improve the world. Once you find a definite answer, you won't be trying to achieve this contradictory goal.
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I try hard to shut it all out and not let it affect my personal happiness, but I'm so driven by a desire to make the world a better place and convert people to reason that I keep walking right into more emotionally traumatic situations.

Does anyone have any good advice for me? Any licensed counsellors out there? :lol:

You can't save the world, that's the job of the altruists.

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