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Reblogged:Self-Interest Conquers Disease. Mellows Harshed.

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3 hours ago, Doug Morris said:

The Delta variant is making lots of young people sick.

The United Kingdom offers some encouraging clues, and might serve as a bellwether for America’s coming months. The variant’s recent reign triggered a climb in pediatric cases there as well, but kids didn’t seem to make up an unexpected proportion of the surge, Alasdair Munro, a pediatric infectious-disease physician at the NIHR Southampton Clinical Research Facility, told me. As things stand, he said, “there’s no indication” that Delta poses a particular menace to kids.

Kids’ bodies can and do fight back, though an explanation for their tenacity remains elusive. One idea posits that kids’ airway cells might be tougher for the coronavirus to break into, Stephanie Langel, an immunologist at Duke University, told me. Another proposes that their immune system is especially adept at churning out an alarm molecule that buttresses the body against infection. Kids, Langel said, might even have a way of marshaling certain antibodies faster than adults, stamping out the virus before it has a chance to infiltrate other tissues.

The Atlantic, August 10, 2021

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Honestly I wasn’t expected a debate either , as I thought it was common knowledge.

https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/how-are-covid-19-deaths-counted-it-s-complicated

This article describes the way I have always considered deaths were counted.

I remember seeing Dr. Birx say it explicitly at a briefing , I believe this article mentions that briefing.

Edited by tadmjones
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16 hours ago, whYNOT said:
19 hours ago, Doug Morris said:

The Delta variant is making lots of young people sick.

The United Kingdom offers some encouraging clues, and might serve as a bellwether for America’s coming months. The variant’s recent reign triggered a climb in pediatric cases there as well, but kids didn’t seem to make up an unexpected proportion of the surge, Alasdair Munro, a pediatric infectious-disease physician at the NIHR Southampton Clinical Research Facility, told me. As things stand, he said, “there’s no indication” that Delta poses a particular menace to kids.

In this context, "young" means younger than most of the victims of the original virus.

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14 hours ago, tadmjones said:

https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/how-are-covid-19-deaths-counted-it-s-complicated

This article describes the way I have always considered deaths were counted.

I remember seeing Dr. Birx say it explicitly at a briefing , I believe this article mentions that briefing.

I read the entire article.  What it says to me is that your statement is simplistic and misleading. 

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What would constitute evidence against a misleading report ? Do you mean I need to analyze the data surrounding all deaths in the US since late 2019 or find a report from an institution that has access to reliable data , in order to assert that the health authorities are disseminating false or misleading information ?

Those authorities explicitly said they are counting death with a positive test (and in some cases suspected infection is enough to list as positive)the same as death caused by disease in the tallies. I believe this was done purposely to skew the public’s impression of the relative lethality of the virus.

You said you didn’t think it was true that they treated positive tests irrespective of cause as a covid death in the tally , do still believe that is true ?

Mask up and get the jab or the virus will kill you just like over six hundred thousand of your countrymen!

 

Edited by tadmjones
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24 minutes ago, tadmjones said:

What would constitute evidence against a misleading report ?

Offer your evidence and I'll tell you what I think of it.

25 minutes ago, tadmjones said:

Those authorities explicitly said they are counting death with a positive test (and in some cases suspected infection is enough to list as positive)the same as death caused by disease in the tallies. I believe this was done purposely to skew the public’s impression of the relative lethality of the virus.

Again, the article you yourself linked shows your statement is simplistic and misleading.

28 minutes ago, tadmjones said:

You said you didn’t think it was true that they treated positive tests irrespective of cause as a covid death in the tally , do still believe that is true ?

Yes, I still think they are not treating positive tests irrespective of cause as a covid death in the tally, and the article you yourself linked supports me in this.

32 minutes ago, tadmjones said:

Mask up and get the jab

I already have.  Everyone who does not have a valid medical excuse should do the same.

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There’s a lot of speculation that use of mRNA tech that targets an isolated aspect of the whole virus instead of the historic practice of inoculation with the whole virus especially during a pandemic isn’t a valid medical practice.

The reasoning as I understand it says that the risk to variant forcing out ways the benefit of disease prevention provided by a ‘leaky’ vaccine. At least with a disease with the mortality rates sarscovid19 possesses. The actions may be necessitated if we were in a similar situation of a novel infection akin to Ebola.

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20 hours ago, tadmjones said:

There’s a lot of speculation that use of mRNA tech that targets an isolated aspect of the whole virus instead of the historic practice of inoculation with the whole virus especially during a pandemic isn’t a valid medical practice.

The vaccine has been very effective so far, including against the delta variant.

Failure to vaccinate greatly increases risk, both for oneself and others.

Is all you have to offer Speculation?

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Is it considered , generally, a good medical practice to use leaky vaccines during an outbreak ? If the experimental trials are effective it will have been because of luck not sound reasoning. Not sayin' luck aint good , but fear, desperation and manipulation were the mothers of these inventions.

 

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54 minutes ago, tadmjones said:

fear, desperation and manipulation were the mothers of these inventions.

Not prudence?  Not a desire for good health?  Not necessity?  Not the work that had already been done on mRNA technology?  Not a desire for scientific progress?

What are your grounds for saying manipulation was involved?

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The epidemiologist who'd been ridiculed in early 2020 and taken off Youtube, for advising to open up when the accepted science was for locking down, looks to now be vindicated. Wittkowski interviewed :

 

 

Edited by whYNOT
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On 8/13/2021 at 5:02 PM, Doug Morris said:

What are your grounds for saying manipulation was involved?

It's important to recognize that unwarranted skepticism in this case is about distrust of the nature of the way scientific research works, and distrust of pharmaceutical companies. It's weird though, because it amounts to distrust of reason and capitalism. They just don't realize that the system they think is out to get them is capitalism. Just one step away from declaring false consciousness.

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Unwarranted?

It feels like you wanted to say duped.

A Carnegie Mellon study recently found that grouped by education level the highest group level of vaccine hesitancy was among those holding PhDs , would that group correlate with the least trusting or knowledgeable of scientific research?

Edited by tadmjones
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1 hour ago, Doug Morris said:

Can you point us to the study?

He can't, because there isn't. :)

What I mean is that there is no study that shows the conclusion he said. The relevant study does not make this conclusion, nor could they if they wanted to. Unfortunately, most people prefer to think that something nefarious is at work rather than think that they need to study better how scientific research works, or study more statistics, or admit that the scientists might actually know more. Even if Tad's claim were proven to be true, we don't even know if those PhD's are mostly science related in the first place. 

Forgot the link:

https://www.truthorfiction.com/no-a-study-didnt-find-that-the-most-highly-educated-americans-are-also-the-most-vaccine-hesitant/

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.20.21260795v1.full.pdf

Edited by Eiuol
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From the linked article debunking my assertion :

"On July 26 2021, Carnegie Mellon University issued a press release about the research, reiterating the findings about vaccine hesitancy in PhDs in a contextually accurate fashion:

    A study conducted by researchers from Carnegie Mellon University and the University of Pittsburgh has found that vaccine hesitancy has decreased among US adults by one-third between January and May 2021. While tentative people are concerned about COVID-19 vaccine safety and potential side effects, those with stronger views tend to distrust the government.

    […]

    The largest decrease in hesitancy between January and May [2021] by education group was in those with a high school education or less. Hesitancy held constant in the most educated group (those with a PhD); by May PhD’s were the most hesitant group [among the vaccine hesitant]. While vaccine hesitancy decreased across virtually all racial groups, Black people and Pacific Islanders had the largest decreases, joining Hispanics and Asians at having lower vaccine hesitancy than white people in May [2021]."

?

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One either has the freedom to choose what is injected into one's body, or one has no freedom. What's it to be? That personal freedom has to be defended, equally by those who disagree strongly with others' choices (On principle, but also because you and your choices might be next). 

 

Edited by whYNOT
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1 hour ago, tadmjones said:

by May PhD’s were the most hesitant group [among the vaccine hesitant].

What, exactly, does among the vaccine hesitant mean?  The way I read this, it is repeating the statement that, among those who were already vaccine hesitant, PhD's were the least likely to change their minds.  It has nothing to do with which education level among the general population is how likely to be vaccine hesitant.

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I was originally responding the term 'unwarranted skepticism'. I inferred that term pointed to a reason for vaccine hesitancy would be found in people who do not understand ' Science', generally. I commented on the study because it speaks to hesitancy among PhDs. I didn't say anything about the general population.

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