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A couple days ago I finished my second year of law school. Even though my grades are rather average in terms of class rank, I am very proud of them as I have worked hard through some personal and other difficulties to achieve this. I have one year left and am very proud of what I have achieved thus far.

I am looking forward to having this summer off from formal classes. I will still be doing some legal studies. I am entering a competition at school to try and get on to the Law Review. This involves researching and writing about a recent case. I will be studying MGM v. Grokster, a case about contributory copyright infringement and p2p networks. I can't wait to get going on this!

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I am thinking about becoming a lawyer as well. Any tips?

My father tells me I should major in the math or sciences, because majoring in a liberal arts field (history, english, etc.) won't help me in the long run, because I won't be able to be a lawyer anyway (too many as it is, as he puts it). Any merit to lack of jobs?

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I am thinking about becoming a lawyer as well. Any tips?

My father tells me I should major in the math or sciences, because majoring in a liberal arts field (history, english, etc.) won't help me in the long run, because I won't be able to be a lawyer anyway (too many as it is, as he puts it). Any merit to lack of jobs?

If that isn't a non-Objectivist statement I don't know what is.

Are you going to follow what you're father says, or are you going to follow what you consider your highest value, the purpose of your life?

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A couple days ago I finished my second year of law school.  Even though my grades are rather average in terms of class rank, I am very proud of them as I have worked hard through some personal and other difficulties to achieve this.  I have one year left and am very proud of what I have achieved thus far.

Many congratulations on becoming a 3L. As I mention to anyone who is a 2L, 1/2 the people who made it into law school in the first place didn't make it to being 2L's, and even fever that wanted to get into law school (complaints about their being to many lawyers aside) that couldn't get the LSAT's to get into school to start with, survival is an accomplishment.

To be honest, unless you are going to go with a big name firm or you aren't in the top 15% most schools your grades really won't matter that much. What will matter is how well you interview and how well you know your stuff. My fiance does work study in her career services and she's seen the guys that were literally the top people in her class go on dozens of interviews and not get a single offer because they only have "booksmarts" and lack the ability to apply their knowledge in real world settings ie "common sense" or "street smarts".

As for the Grokster case, it should be interesting now that Groklaw and Grokster and being bankrolled by Mark Cuban. At least I think it's Cuban that is bankrolling them as a personal issue with MGM/UA.

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I am thinking about becoming a lawyer as well. Any tips?

My father tells me I should major in the math or sciences, because majoring in a liberal arts field (history, english, etc.) won't help me in the long run, because I won't be able to be a lawyer anyway (too many as it is, as he puts it). Any merit to lack of jobs?

If that isn't a non-Objectivist statement I don't know what is.

Are you going to follow what you're father says, or are you going to follow what you consider your highest value, the purpose of your life?

Not to speak for the poster, but let me summarize my interpretation.

1. I am thinking about becoming a lawyer.

2. I've been told there aren't any legal jobs. Source: Dad.

3. Is this true?

I don't think your interpretation is fair in the absence of other evidence. I think more caution is due on your part when impliedly accusing someone of being irrational.

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I am thinking about becoming a lawyer as well. Any tips?

I'd be happy to offer my thoughts, but first I would like to see if you have a question that's a little more narrow. Do you have anything more specific in mind? If not, that's okay, I'll answer. But, of course, the more specific you get, the more helpful the answer is likely to be.

My father tells me I should major in the math or sciences, because majoring in a liberal arts field (history, english, etc.) won't help me in the long run, because I won't be able to be a lawyer anyway (too many as it is, as he puts it). Any merit to lack of jobs?

I don't feel qualified to give a strong opinion about that, but I will happily tell you what little I know.

My roommate asked one of our professors, who used to practice with O'Melveny & Myers out in L.A., about the amount of lawyers in the phone book, and the few hundred that graduate in this state every year. He asked, is there really enough work to go around for all those people? The answer was basically "Yes."

Look at a school's career service information to see how many students don't even end up practicing law. I can't tell whether or not this is intentional in every case. I can say, for what little it's worth, that I know several students who do not intend to practice law at all.

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My fiance does work study in her career services and she's seen the guys that were literally the top people in her class go on dozens of interviews and not get a single offer because they only have "booksmarts" and lack the ability to apply their knowledge in real world settings ie "common sense" or  "street smarts".

I've seen that in many such people. Personalities of eggplants, no people skills. Not that people skills and personality necessarily make you a better person, but they do make you more employable. Who wants to work with a complete jerk?

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If that isn't a non-Objectivist statement I don't know what is.
On the face of it, it's an obviously Objectivist statement and question. It reports two facts and asks a question. The father is raising a perfectly legitimate point, and it would be irrational not to consider those issues. It would be irrational to unthinkingly accept the father's dictate: raising a concern is not the same as mindlessly abandoning your values. The question is intended to cause AS to inspect his values and consider the facts, to determine whether it is the law that is the most important purpose in life, vs. a good-paying job.
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I am thinking about becoming a lawyer as well. Any tips?

My father tells me I should major in the math or sciences, because majoring in a liberal arts field (history, english, etc.) won't help me in the long run, because I won't be able to be a lawyer anyway (too many as it is, as he puts it). Any merit to lack of jobs?

Follow your passions. "loving the doing" is vital. If you end up doing something you don't like, or aren't happy with, you'll end up mediocre at it and you won't make much money because of this. There have got to be practical fields out there that you would love doing. And, if you don't have a field you love, then search for one! It's vital.

I hope this is not out of place advice here, but on Stephen Speicher's forum there is an "ask the experts" area, where you can ask a professional lawyer, Adam Mossoff, about getting into the legal profession.

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Follow your passions.  "loving the doing" is vital.  If you end up doing something you don't like, or aren't happy with, you'll end up mediocre at it and you won't make much money because of this.  There have got to be practical fields out there that you would love doing.  And, if you don't have a field you love, then search for one!  It's vital.

  I hope this is not out of place advice here, but on Stephen Speicher's forum there is an "ask the experts" area, where you can ask a professional lawyer, Adam Mossoff, about getting into the legal profession.

I firstly want to thank all who have posted so far. Here are some clarifications. My father's edicts will and do not become rules for my life. I have wanted to be inolved in the criminal justice field ever since I was little. I am going to be a lawyer. I take the previous post questioning my rationality as insulting. My post was not asking any of you whether or not I should be a lawyer; my question was to how hard it will be for me.

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My post was not asking any of you whether or not I should be a lawyer; my question was to how hard it will be for me.
The question of how hard it will be really depends on your particular talents (the question you asked about jobs really goes to the issue of how lucrative it might be). I think analytic ability is probably the most important skill, and then ability to distinguish between wish and reality. What is probably most important is that you learn something well, even if it isn't directly relevant to law. A solid BS in chemistry would probably be more useful that an unfocused pre-law major. I would recommend majoring in linguistics, though that would be self-serving ;)
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I firstly want to thank all who have posted so far. Here are some clarifications. My father's edicts will and do not become rules for my life. I have wanted to be inolved in the criminal justice field ever since I was little. I am going to be a lawyer. I take the previous post questioning my rationality as insulting. My post was not asking any of you whether or not I should be a lawyer; my question was to how hard it will be for me.

Look at your father's views from the opposite context: The field of law if chock full of mediocre uniterested lawyers that are a dime a dozen. Therefore, you should not enter into a field that is so full of mediocrity.

If anything, in the right context, that is exactly the right field to get into. A good lawyer that is logical, rational, etc is actually pretty hard to find. That represents a very good opportunity for someone to make a killing in a field that they love if they can perform well and, most important of all, love doing it.

Also, people lump lawyers in one catch all field. Given my fiance's being one (as soon as she passes the bar that is), most of our friends are lawyers. Of the dozen or so I can think of right off the top of my head, only 2 do the same thing for a living. They do things like immigration, tax, corporate, contract, divorce, IP, wills trusts and estates, and even complaince officers in stock brokerages and a chemical plant.

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A solid BS in chemistry would probably be more useful that an unfocused pre-law major.

Interestingly enough, my uncle, the only lawyer in my extended family (until next year, anyway), got his undergrad in chemistry. So at least one person would agree with you. ;)

Every admissions person I've spoken to, every school website FAQ I've seen, they all say the same thing. Get your bachelor's in something you love. I got mine in music business. What they look for is your ability to think and perform, because that's what you'll have to do at a high level when you get to law school. Whether you did that in history, poli sci, linguistics, chemistry, or ancient Mongolian architecture, my experience is that doesn't matter much, if at all.

Edited by Groovenstein
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A couple days ago I finished my second year of law school.  Even though my grades are rather average in terms of class rank, I am very proud of them as I have worked hard through some personal and other difficulties to achieve this.  I have one year left and am very proud of what I have achieved thus far.

I am looking forward to having this summer off from formal classes.  I will still be doing some legal studies.  I am entering a competition at school to try and get on to the Law Review.  This involves researching and writing about a recent case.  I will be studying MGM v. Grokster, a case about contributory copyright infringement and p2p networks.  I can't wait to get going on this!

Congratulations on finishing two years thus far! I am slated to being attending McGeorge School of Law this fall (2005), so I'm a little behind you :D.

I've been following the MGM v. Grokster case, and if you're willing I'd be glad to read over what you write on the subject. Good luck getting on the law review!

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I am slated to being attending McGeorge School of Law this fall (2005) . . . .

Good for you. I went to the library there while visiting my uncle in Sacramento last summer. I like my school, but I have to admit it would be nice to read under a palm tree between classes.

I've been following the MGM v. Grokster case, and if you're willing I'd be glad to read over what you write on the subject.

I may not be able to write about the case. There will be a list of topics and if it's not on there, I'll have to get approval, which I've been told may or may not happen. (Apparently they save the high-profile cases for people who are actually on Law Review, but we'll see.)

If I do write about it, I'd be happy to show you my work provided that I can. If it's published, the University will also own the copyright, so I don't think I could give it to you. Though you could just hit the library and read it yourself, assuming McGeorge carries the Nebraska Law Review. If it isn't published, I might want to enter it in other competitions and such, so I'd have to look into their rules, but I don't foresee a problem.

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  • 11 months later...

Well, it's finally here. I am graduating from law school this upcoming Saturday. I do have a couple small matters to attend to for one of my cases at the Clinic, but apart from that my school obligations are over. Relief, happiness, tired are among the feelings at the moment. My major activities for the next three months are as follows:

1. increased workload with the public defender;

2. studying for the bar exam; and

3. getting the band's live performances up and running again and increasing the CD promotion.

In a word, yes. Yes. :P

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Well, it's finally here. I am graduating from law school this upcoming Saturday. I do have a couple small matters to attend to for one of my cases at the Clinic, but apart from that my school obligations are over. Relief, happiness, tired are among the feelings at the moment. My major activities for the next three months are as follows:

In a word, yes. Yes.

Congratulations and best of luck! :pirate: If you can make it through being a 3L, you can make it through anything.

On a side note, my wife finds out about the February bar results tomorrow. eek.

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Good luck with the bar. When will you sit for it?

Gracias. I take the bar in Boston on July 26-27. However, I will be out there from the end of June to the beginning of August.

On a side note, my wife finds out about the February bar results tomorrow. eek.

:o Please let me know if she passes so I can extend my congrats. I'd say I can't imagine what that feels like, but actually I have a pretty good idea. :pirate:

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