iouswuoibev Posted May 11, 2005 Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 I have some questions in regards to recreation. What defines a recreational activity? What purpose do they serve? When is it moral to engage in one? Should it have to enhance your productive life in some way in order to be moral? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softwareNerd Posted May 11, 2005 Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 Just a quick reference, in case you have not read it: Ayn Rand's article on stamp-collecting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iouswuoibev Posted May 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 Just a quick reference, in case you have not read it: Ayn Rand's article on stamp-collecting. I have read it, and it does show one example of recreation that would be moral. But that's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Mathis Posted May 11, 2005 Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 (edited) I have some questions in regards to recreation. 1) What defines a recreational activity? 2) What purpose do they serve? 3) When is it moral to engage in one? 4) Should it have to enhance your productive life in some way in order to be moral? 1) Any non-work-related activity that gives one pleasure. 2) To stimulate one's mind or body. 3) Whenever it is not destructive of oneself or others. 4) No. Edited May 11, 2005 by Eric Mathis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softwareNerd Posted May 11, 2005 Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 ...it does show one example of recreation that would be moral. But that's all. It also offers reasons and explanations. These are more generally applicable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iouswuoibev Posted May 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 I'm also wondering if the idea of "recreating" has anything to do with recreation. 1) Any non-work-related activity that gives one pleasure. 2) To stimulate one's mind or body. 3) Whenever it is not destructive of oneself or others. 4) No. 1. Pleasure is a sensory faculty, and recreation as far as I am aware has nothing to do with being pleasing to the senses. 2. What do you mean by this? 4. If it does not enhance your productive life in any way, of what good is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Mathis Posted May 11, 2005 Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 I'm also wondering if the idea of "recreating" has anything to do with recreation. 1. Pleasure is a sensory faculty, and recreation as far as I am aware has nothing to do with being pleasing to the senses. The next time I jump into a swimming pool on a hot day, I'll try to remind myself of that. 2. What do you mean by this? "Stimulate" means "to excite or invigorate." For me, reading Raymond Chandler, watching Marx Brothers comedies, chatting on the Internet, and playing fetch with my dog are stimulating activities. "Recreate" literally means "to impart fresh life to." 4. If it does not enhance your productive life in any way, of what good is it? Recreation is valuable in and of itself. I have a friend who retired at 45 to pursue his passion for travel. His daily activities do not add to his wealth, but they are no less valuable for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iouswuoibev Posted May 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 The next time I jump into a swimming pool on a hot day, I'll try to remind myself of that. The point is, you exclude any other aspect, e.g. happiness, from the equation, because you specified pleasure as the sole defining characteristic. And by the definition you offered, engaging in recreational activities is hedonistic. Recreation is valuable in and of itself. That is intrinsicism, which is contrary to Objectivism. I am only interested in what Objectivists think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softwareNerd Posted May 12, 2005 Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 Humans need physical rest -- as in sleep. I'd hazard a preliminary hypothesis that non-physical rest is a human need somewhat in the same sense as art is a human need. Non-physical rest consists of "doing some else for a change". It can even be something that is physically strenuous. For instance, someone who's career involves little physical exercise may "rest" by running. Like art, well-chosen recreation is enjoyable and adds to one's sense of well being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Mathis Posted May 12, 2005 Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 The point is, you exclude any other aspect, e.g. happiness, from the equation, because you specified pleasure as the sole defining characteristic. And by the definition you offered, engaging in recreational activities is hedonistic. I never said happiness should be excluded from the equation. In fact, I urge all those whose pleasures diminish their happiness to cease and desist from such pleasures this instant. That is intrinsicism, which is contrary to Objectivism. I am only interested in what Objectivists think. All right. My point was not that one should pursue recreation purely for recreation's sake. Obviously, recreation is pointless if it makes one less happy. I only wished to express the idea that certain activities can be worthwhile, even if they are not at all related to one's productivity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iouswuoibev Posted May 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 Humans need physical rest -- as in sleep. I'd hazard a preliminary hypothesis that non-physical rest is a human need somewhat in the same sense as art is a human need. Non-physical rest consists of "doing some else for a change". It can even be something that is physically strenuous. For instance, someone who's career involves little physical exercise may "rest" by running. Like art, well-chosen recreation is enjoyable and adds to one's sense of well being. I like this explanation a lot. Exercise would be a bit like resting for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iakeo Posted May 12, 2005 Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 What defines a recreational activity? What purpose do they serve? When is it moral to engage in one? Should it have to enhance your productive life in some way in order to be moral? Recreation is "re-creating" something. Since entropy breaks down that which is "created", if a creation is deemed valuable it is a good thing to "re-create" it. The purpose of recreation is stated above. It is to "re-create" that which entropic forces have and are breaking down. Increasing what one values is a moral activity. "Re-creating" (restoring/increasing) what one values is therefore a moral good, and an ethical imperative. Any act that enhances what you value is "productive", and therefore is part of your "productive life". Increasing what you value IS "production". Your definition of "recreational activity", as you're using it above, contains the assumption that it's possible to be "recreational" while NOT being productive. Any activity that is not "productive" (increasing a value of yours) is not a "re- creation" of your values,.. It is a merely a waste of time. (( You might try defining what you mean by particular words, like "recreation", to yourself, and then in your questioning to others, as that usually makes the "answer" either obvious or at least easier for others to deal with [answer]. The goal is to find a way to question YOURSELF, with the last resort being the questioning of others, about things that you don't understand. )) -Iakeo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgessLau Posted May 12, 2005 Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 4. If it does not enhance your productive life in any way, of what good is it? What are your highest personal values? I have three: work, friends, and leisure (recreation). My main leisure activities take a particular form: "roving" -- either physically by walking or bicycling, or mentally by reading certain types of fiction. My recreation enhances my friendships, directly and indirectly, and my productivity as well. How? By being re-creational. That is, recreation helps me restore myself psychologically after I have become frazzled with stressful situations, in work or another area of life. All three of my highest personal values support my ultimate value, happiness. What about you? What is your ultimate purpose and what are the highest personal values that support it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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