Jump to content
Objectivism Online Forum

A Serious Question.

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

How do you seek forgiveness for having been a Christian?

I look at the question and it seems laughable but its something that has bothered me for a few years now.

I was a Fundamentalist Christian. I was even an Evangelist for a few years. I Preached the Gospel and even led people to salvation.

As I look back now I cringe at the things I did that at the time I felt where the height of morality. I would love to try to reverse the damage I caused to people but I have no way of contacting them even if I could change their minds again.

I know that on some level they are responsible for what they believe but I did have an effect.

I Preached even after I lost faith. At the time I felt I wasn't a good enough person to ever live as an Objectivist and I deserved Christianity.

If someone gets AIDS from a promiscuous life it doesn't make the person they got it from bad unless the person knew they had AIDS.

For almost a year I had Ayn Rand quotes in my head contradicting everything I Preached. It was intolerable.

Its been a long road but I am finished struggling with reason and simply except it as all there is and have slowly come to love it.

The question remains, how do I make amends for the harm I caused others?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The question remains, how do I make amends for the harm I caused others?

By identifying and integrating the principles of a rational philosophy and refusing to compromise on them ever again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The question remains, how do I make amends for the harm I caused others?

By finally turning to yourself and become selfish on principle. Others are indeed responsible for what ideas they hold as true. To those you "inspired" you owe nothing but an apology.

Dwelling on your past will not do much good now. You know your mistake and you have chosen to stop making it, and that's all the dwelling you needed to do. It is time to rebuild your own life - which reminds me to ask you: Do you think that you have done more damage to others or to yourself?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's very inspiring to see that you've changed your ways.

Don't worry about forgiveness anymore. The only person that can forgive you is yourself. You acted to promote your values--that is admirable; you just had the wrong values because somebody had tricked you first.

P.S. There is a song by Morrissey called "I have forgiven Jesus" which you may be interested in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

By finally turning to yourself and become selfish on principle. Others are indeed responsible for what ideas they hold as true. To those you "inspired" you owe nothing but an apology.

Dwelling on your past will not do much good now. You know your mistake and you have chosen to stop making it, and that's all the dwelling you needed to do. It is time to rebuild your own life - which reminds me to ask you: Do you think that you have done more damage to others or to yourself?

I wonder at what point I became an irreparable monster in the shape of a pot. LOL

The damage I and others have done to me are something with which I must live. As to how extensive it is I don't yet know. Its been 7 years now studying Objectivism and I feel like a personal renaissance took place. I read Galts speech out loud and all at once. The whole novel was at the same time soothing and irritating. Now I wonder how I could ever have thought the way I did then.

In the end I know what people believe is their own responsibility.

I just wish I could get hold of them and tell them I was and idiot back then and would you please disregard everything I told you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder at what point I became an irreparable monster in the shape of a pot. LOL

The damage I and others have done to me are something with which I must live. As to how extensive it is I don't yet know. Its been 7 years now studying Objectivism and I feel like a personal renaissance took place. I read Galts speech out loud and all at once. The whole novel was at the same time soothing and irritating. Now I wonder how I could ever have thought the way I did then.

In the end I know what people believe is their own responsibility.

I just wish I could get hold of them and tell them I was and idiot back then and would you please disregard everything I told you.

Your self flagilation is disgusting.

I have no tolerance for such self-sacrificial nonsense. If you're a good person,

show it by being what you consider a good person should be. Period. The past is

the past.

We don't need your bid for pity, which is nothing more than self-righteous self

agrandizement, which is the typical sign of the evangelist zealot.

If you want to not be a self mutilating pity monger, simply stop it.

I am indeed harch in my words, but if you have truly been "studying" objectivism

you would have realised long ago that your wish to "rectify the so-called damage"

you've done is nothing more than imposing the past (the not you now) on the

present and future.

To continue in this embarrassing train of action and thought is very VERY non-

objectivist.

Snap out of it, buckeroo..!! Get real and heal yourself with what you know is right.

-Iakeo

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your self flagilation is disgusting.

[LOL. Love the verbiage. Its more like exfoliation than self flagellation but I see some truth in what your saying.

Someone once told me that you have to spend as much time getting Christianity out of your system as you did putting it in. I have seven years of philosophical detoxing out of twenty years of infection. I guess I still come across as wearing a hair shirt and a mortification "Cilice" belt.

BTW: I like green. "#336600" Thought I might mention it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe I can get rid of the "Self-mutilating pity monger" tone if I depersonalize the question and make it more general.

You have made a mistake in your past that your sense of justice compels you to make amends for but there is no way to properly do so.

In the context of this question the "proper method" is to contact a person that you have wronged but doing so is impossible.

In the context of my amended context "wronged" means "to knowingly speak falsely."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

... make it more general...
:) That was funny!

You have made a mistake in your past that your sense of justice compels you to make amends for but there is no way to properly do so.
If there really is no way, then there really is no way.

Be good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[LOL. Love the verbiage. Its more like exfoliation than self flagellation but I see some truth in what your saying.

Someone once told me that you have to spend as much time getting Christianity out of your system as you did putting it in. I have seven years of philosophical detoxing out of twenty years of infection. I guess I still come across as wearing a hair shirt and a mortification "Cilice" belt.

BTW: I like green. "#336600" Thought I might mention it.

:D

Hae ae ae..! Yeah....! A sense of humor..! That characteristic (behavior) will take

you far, and keep your spirit alive during the trek. Glad you could see the point of

my 'caustic" remarks. When someone actually GETS the point of harsh words,

which is a more and more rare occurance these days, it brings me MUCH

happiness and a feeling of closeness to the one who can smile back at my rude,

yet pertinent, nonsense, which isn't nonsense at all.

Excellent..! :)

And,.. YES,.. you need to lose the scratchy shirt and uncomfortable belt.

Objectively, what good do they do? Other than slow you down and force you to

relive the unchangable past, when you should be moving forward,.. not suffering

the past.

Concentrating on that which hurt you gives it power. Sap it of it's power by

finding something of value to obsess about.

As you're going to obsess about SOMETHING anyway,.. it's obviously just in your

nature.

-Iakeo :)

Edited by Iakeo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

By earning forgiveness: by becoming a moral man, in thought, in action, as well as in screen name. (Hint: "rossz valaki" means "someone bad" in Hungarian!)

Its Hungarian for "The Evil One."

Its a name I picked up arguing with Christians. "Oh no the Evil One is going to post!"

Its not meant to be self abasing more along the line of a term of endearment. Ominous isn't it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder at what point I became an irreparable monster in the shape of a pot. LOL

Sorry, the humor of this sentence escapes me.

The damage I and others have done to me are something with which I must live. As to how extensive it is I don't yet know. Its been 7 years now studying Objectivism and I feel like a personal renaissance took place. I read Galts speech out loud and all at once. The whole novel was at the same time soothing and irritating. Now I wonder how I could ever have thought the way I did then.
Mistakes happen. Some people do evil things by choice, but I think many do them because they know of no other way to deal with things. It's a shame that so many children grow up to be completely disillusioned by life and/or the world around them, and then not knowing how to deal with such a state they turn to any fictional entity which somehow seems to make things in "this world" (as if there is another one) seem meaningful to them.

Oh, and I'm sure that they truly believe they have found the ultimate truth. But I do not think that they should be branded as evil because of this. Those who are evil will not budge from their position when someone beats them in an argument. They will instead come up with further rationalizations to "back up" their beliefs, or they'll simply resort to evasion. Those who are not evil, however, will abandon their belief when they listen to reason. It may not be easy, but they will. And you have. You yourself said that you found Atlas Shrugged both irritating and soothing. Irritating because, on a very deep level, it questioned your every belief and denounced it as evil (or at least almost every), and soothing because by doing so it gave you all the reason and reassurance you needed to know for certain that life on Earth IS WORTH LIVING!

So, you should not waste a second more to brood over your past, or to feel bad about anyone who may have listened to you. If you do, you are falling into the same trap all over again.

In the end I know what people believe is their own responsibility.

I just wish I could get hold of them and tell them I was and idiot back then and would you please disregard everything I told you.

This desire is an emotion. Emotions, by Objectivist theory, can be "programmed." When you think of all those people you've been teaching Christianity, simply remind yourself that there is no reason to feel bad about them. Or better yet, try to think of a valid reason why you SHOULD. There really is none. They live their lives and ultimately they decide what they believe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry, the humor of this sentence escapes me.

It is a reference to Ayn Rand's essay "The Comprachicos", reprinted in "The New Left".

Ayn Rand says:

When one judges that this has occurred and that the monster is made, one breaks the vase, the child comes out, and one has a man in the shape of a pot. (Victor Hugo, The Man Who Laughs, translation mine.)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is a reference to Ayn Rand's essay "The Comprachicos", reprinted in "The New Left".

Thanks. I haven't read The Comprachicos, so I'll look it up.

Edited to fix the quote tag.

Edited by source
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...
How do you seek forgiveness for having been a Christian?

I look at the question and it seems laughable but its something that has bothered me for a few years now.

I was a Fundamentalist Christian. I was even an Evangelist for a few years. I Preached the Gospel and even led people to salvation.

As I look back now I cringe at the things I did that at the time I felt where the height of morality. I would love to try to reverse the damage I caused to people but I have no way of contacting them even if I could change their minds again.

I know that on some level they are responsible for what they believe but I did have an effect.

I Preached even after I lost faith. At the time I felt I wasn't a good enough person to ever live as an Objectivist and I deserved Christianity.

If someone gets AIDS from a promiscuous life it doesn't make the person they got it from bad unless the person knew they had AIDS.

For almost a year I had Ayn Rand quotes in my head contradicting everything I Preached. It was intolerable.

Its been a long road but I am finished struggling with reason and simply except it as all there is and have slowly come to love it.

The question remains, how do I make amends for the harm I caused others?

Thank the Lord (Metaphor!!!) that you realize the nature of your previous actions! Even asking this question, to begin with, atones for anything you may have done in the past in a major way... but not completely.

Regardless of what principles you now hold, and how much you regret whatever you have done in the past, you cannot atone for an evasion of this magnitude. Yes, you have probably done a lot of harm because of it, much of it irreversible. Reverse whatever harm can be reversed.

Don't ask anyone to forgive you, because such a massive evasion as deliberately preaching a contradiciton (after it has been realized as a contradiction) is not forgivable. But you do not have to "pay for" what you have done. Despite what you have done in the past, it now seems that you are a perfectly virtuous person, and that you have payed, in multiple ways, already.

Here is the best way I think you can make ammends: if you know anyone personally who is a Fundamentalist Christian, or is going down the road you went down in some regard, try to steer them in the right direction. Tell them what they are doing wrong; do not spare their feelings. If you feel guilt, the best way of wiping it clean is to help to make the world guiltless.

Take John Galt's oath: "I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." Live by it!

I salute your integrity!

Edited by ingok
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...