AlexL Posted August 6, 2022 Report Share Posted August 6, 2022 On 8/2/2022 at 2:50 AM, whYNOT said: Fair enough, your points are worthwhile noting. But apparently they are not worthwhile being answered – refuted or else agreed with. Instead, you go for whataboutism (also called “But you are lynching Negroes!”) : the subject being the objectivity of RT’s presentation of RAND Corporation Report, you change the subject with a counter-accusation: Quote Look closer, and the Rand Corp report has inbuilt bias And then going on a tangent… I wonder if this - inappropriate - behavior has something to do with the fact that a week ago you were in the "Senior Member" group, now you are a „Regular”… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexL Posted August 6, 2022 Report Share Posted August 6, 2022 On 8/4/2022 at 8:44 PM, whYNOT said: <...> whYNOT about the West, some quotes: dominant western news reports... western propaganda... western indoctrination... egregiously devious… western media... West's own propaganda-for-war-machine... indoctrinated unreality a large part of the West lives in... western media … seldom … conduct unbiased investigations... These are not from all his comments, and not about West in general, but only about western media and only from his comments spanning about four weeks. Possibly whYNOT's RT-worship has something to do with his animus against the West... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadmjones Posted August 6, 2022 Report Share Posted August 6, 2022 2 hours ago, AlexL said: whYNOT about the West, some quotes: dominant western news reports... western propaganda... western indoctrination... egregiously devious… western media... West's own propaganda-for-war-machine... indoctrinated unreality a large part of the West lives in... western media … seldom … conduct unbiased investigations... I would agree these are fair criticisms of western media ‘news coverage’. It’s effective too. How else do you explain that Biden is provably the most corrupt official ‘elected’ to the President , the general expectation that the untested mRNA vaccine platform would be safe and effective , the need for maternity flight suits in the military, immediate curtailment of fossil fuels will halt climate change , rampant systemic racism necessitates violence ,ect. Jon Letendre 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexL Posted August 6, 2022 Report Share Posted August 6, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, tadmjones said: I would agree these are fair criticisms of western media ‘news coverage’. It’s effective too. How else do you explain that... 1. OK, then prove that each of these 7 criticisms of the entire Western is fair, that is true; 2. "How else do you explain" this or that proves nothing. It only shows that the person uttering this "argument" has no other explanation, not that no other explanation is possible. He still has to positively prove that his explanation is the correct one. Moreover, this "argument" does not compel the interlocutor to come with an alternative explanation. It only shows that the utterer's is an arbitrary one. Edited August 6, 2022 by AlexL Commented on another claim too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadmjones Posted August 7, 2022 Report Share Posted August 7, 2022 16 hours ago, AlexL said: 1. OK, then prove that each of these 7 criticisms of the entire Western is fair, that is true; 2. "How else do you explain" this or that proves nothing. It only shows that the person uttering this "argument" has no other explanation, not that no other explanation is possible. He still has to positively prove that his explanation is the correct one. Moreover, this "argument" does not compel the interlocutor to come with an alternative explanation. It only shows that the utterer's is an arbitrary one. I used five examples to show that 'western' , 'main stream media' or 'corporate media' uses propaganda to persuade the public at large to believe their narratives and that the proof is the ridiculous situations that are manifest in the real world. These situations could only come about if enough of the 'public at large' was fed only so much biased distorted information. Biden sold his influence while in office to agents of foreign governments , if not the governments themselves. The 'proof' is in Hunter Biden's personal data that became public. The Biden's have not disputed the authenticity of the data it is prima facie evidence of corruption , it literally could not be more blatant. That information was 'publicly' available prior to November 2019. And yet Biden was elected by the highest popular vote total ever, I think. How did a provably corrupt official garner such popular support? Is Biden a successful demagogue , his soaring rhetoric and personal appeal won over the majority of the voting public ? His political and legislative career was so laudable and impressive that his 'track record' made him the obvious choice even in the face of the proof of his corruption? Jon Letendre 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Morris Posted August 7, 2022 Report Share Posted August 7, 2022 There are a lot of reasons why elections go the way they do. This includes partisanship, bad ideas, and too many people voting their emotions. Trump is terribly flawed. I couldn't see my way clear to voting for either him or Biden, so I voted Libertarian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadmjones Posted August 7, 2022 Report Share Posted August 7, 2022 6 minutes ago, Doug Morris said: There are a lot of reasons why elections go the way they do. This includes partisanship, bad ideas, and too many people voting their emotions. Trump is terribly flawed. I couldn't see my way clear to voting for either him or Biden, so I voted Libertarian. Biden is provably corrupt and arguably to the extent of treason, but ok you voted L , go Dave ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexL Posted August 7, 2022 Report Share Posted August 7, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, tadmjones said: ...the proof is the ridiculous situations that are manifest in the real world. These situations could only come about if... This "reasoning" is the same "how else do you explain...", and it proves nothing. I already explained why. And Doug Morris mentioned, in his comment above, other possible explanations. Edited August 7, 2022 by AlexL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadmjones Posted August 7, 2022 Report Share Posted August 7, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, AlexL said: This "reasoning" is the same "how else do you explain...", and it proves nothing. I already explained why. And Doug Morris mentioned, in his comment above, other possible explanations. Now let’s do covid reaction and vaccine uptake. Then we can go the list of other examples and add many more and maybe discuss how they may all be the subject and or object of propaganda for the captured media concerns in the West. Dave Smith looks like the next candidate for President for the Libertarian party, the “go Dave” was in reference to that , I assumed DM would know that given his enthusiasm for the LP. Edited August 8, 2022 by tadmjones Verbiage to cut down on snarkiest ht S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Morris Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 3 hours ago, tadmjones said: Biden is provably corrupt and arguably to the extent of treason, Trump is provably unwilling to accept the outcome of orderly election processes and arguably to the extent of treason. 42 minutes ago, tadmjones said: I assumed DM would know that given his enthusiasm for the LP No, I'm not enthusiastic for the LP. But voting LP sends a less ambiguous message than not voting at all, and is a lot less trouble than picketing the polling place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadmjones Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Doug Morris said: Trump is provably unwilling to accept the outcome of orderly election processes and arguably to the extent of treason. Did you want to add reading Trump’s mind to the list of examples of the effects of propaganda in Western media ? Did you vote out of an emotional response to a perceived civic duty ? Or did you think your ballot would be brought to Biden so he could be aware of your disappointment in his personal scruples? Edited August 8, 2022 by tadmjones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Morris Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 6 minutes ago, tadmjones said: reading Trump’s mind I do not have to read Trump's mind to identify and judge his actions. 7 minutes ago, tadmjones said: Did you vote out of an emotional response to a perceived civic duty ? No, I voted because I thought voting LP was more constructive than not voting at all. 8 minutes ago, tadmjones said: did you think your ballot would be brought to Biden so he could be aware of your disappointment in his personal scruples? I would be very surprised if Biden were examining individual ballots or guessing at the motivation of individual voters. Tallying one more vote in the LP column will have a very small effect, but it is better than not voting at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadmjones Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 30 minutes ago, Doug Morris said: Trump is provably unwilling to accept the outcome of orderly election processes and arguably to the extent of treason. 10 minutes ago, Doug Morris said: I do not have to read Trump's mind to identify and judge his actions. Trump never claimed he would not accept the outcome of an orderly election process. He does not recognize the outcome as legitimate. What is the proof that it was? The media reports ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Letendre Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 "Orderly election process" is the funniest thing I have seen this year. Thank you. tadmjones 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eiuol Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 12 hours ago, tadmjones said: I used five examples to show that 'western' , 'main stream media' or 'corporate media' uses propaganda to persuade the public at large to believe their narratives and that the proof is the ridiculous situations that are manifest in the real world. These situations could only come about if enough of the 'public at large' was fed only so much biased distorted information. As if your examples you used couldn't be propaganda? Anyway, distorted information is a major issue from RT. Also, the Objectivist theory of history is basically that ideas and philosophy shape what the public at large believes. Stopping at modern history being shaped by propaganda is more like a Leftist analysis of history where the powers of capitalism manipulate the average person through false consciousness brought about by large media corporations. You are blaming capitalism centrally (which of course makes the US take the most criticism), including big Pharma ("they want us to think that vaccines are safe!"), political dynamics manufactured by the media, and to top it off, that the West is completely up to no good for just about any conflict or disagreement. All you do that is really different is that you avoid using the word capitalism. AlexL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadmjones Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 2 minutes ago, Eiuol said: As if your examples you used couldn't be propaganda? It is repeating propaganda talking points to say Biden is corrupt as evidenced by his son’s data? Or that the vaccines and the lockdowns caused more harm than any they prevented ? Is there proof they are safe and effective? Pregnant female military personnel are a needed component of an effective fighting force , the American ideal is a society that sends its pregnant females into battle ? Rioting in response to ‘racism’ is a civil right , that certain groups should be encouraged to participate in ? What part of “capitalism” allows for regulatory capture , or do believe the FDA issuing the EUA for the experimental vaccine platforms was kosher and above board? Can you get the approved formula in the US yet ? The one without liability protection ? Last I heard the only available formulations are issued under a continuing EUA regimen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eiuol Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 1 hour ago, tadmjones said: It is repeating propaganda talking points to say Biden is corrupt as evidenced by his son’s data? He's not a great guy, but yes, the manner in which it is talked about is. 1 hour ago, tadmjones said: Or that the vaccines and the lockdowns caused more harm than any they prevented ? Is there proof they are safe and effective? That vaccines cause more harm? It usually is a type propaganda that lead people to believe that. 1 hour ago, tadmjones said: Pregnant female military personnel are a needed component of an effective fighting force , the American ideal is a society that sends its pregnant females into battle ? Pretty much a nonissue, that you bring it up seems kind of silly. Could easily be from propaganda that makes it seem relevant. 1 hour ago, tadmjones said: Rioting in response to ‘racism’ is a civil right , that certain groups should be encouraged to participate in ? I think saying this is a reason for rioting is usually from a type of propaganda as well. 1 hour ago, tadmjones said: or do believe the FDA issuing the EUA for the experimental vaccine platforms was kosher and above board? Pharmaceutical companies make pretty good products, vaccines included, unless there is reason to think that a specific company has engaged in routine fraud (as opposed to pharmaceutical companies that regularly make effective and useful products). Whatever it takes to approve those is fine with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Letendre Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 The manner in which the crimes and corruption of the Biden Crime Family is discussed, is propaganda. Now that's the funniest thing I have seen this year! Thank you for that. tadmjones 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexL Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 7 hours ago, tadmjones said: Now let’s do... Don't forget what has to be proved : each of the 7 mentioned criticisms (by whYNOT) of the entire Western media is true. In particular, that it is all "egregiously devious", indoctrinating and propagandizing, almost never conduct unbiased investigations and so on. And these were only about media. I didn't quote other sins that whYNOT is accusing the West of, and kind of contrasting it with the putinist Russia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadmjones Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 7 hours ago, Eiuol said: He's not a great guy, but yes, the manner in which it is talked about is. Biden's corruption and the 'media's ' actions regarding the evidence thereof was/is the example of propaganda to which I was referring. The FBI had Hunter's hard drive recovered from the repair shop where he left it while Biden was on stage at a debate with Trump and 'they' allowed him to say that the intelligence community determined that the 'laptop' was Russian lies. Isn't that state controlled media manipulation aka propaganda ? 7 hours ago, Eiuol said: That vaccines cause more harm? It usually is a type propaganda that lead people to believe that. "Safe and effective" was/is propaganda, there is literally no 'science' that exists to make that claim, but the government did and the media echoed it , anyone who accepts the safety of the covid vaccines was duped by propaganda. I'm not even making the claim, though it may prove true that covid jabs adversely affect the innate immune system, that the covid vaccines cause harm. The specific claim I am making is that it is knowingly false to claim they are safe in the absence of proof and yet that is the claim made and repeated ad nauseam on 'media'. 8 hours ago, Eiuol said: Pharmaceutical companies make pretty good products, vaccines included, unless there is reason to think that a specific company has engaged in routine fraud (as opposed to pharmaceutical companies that regularly make effective and useful products). Whatever it takes to approve those is fine with me. The mRNA vaccine platform is unlike any previously used platforms for vaccination, equating the two is a form of propaganda. It's like saying penicillin and chemotherapy to treat lung cancer are the same thing. And the system or process used by the FDA to determine safety of chemical compounds and medical devices is driven by and based on the data the agency receives from those seeking approval an inherently nonobjective method to determine safety. Recent examples include the recommendations for SSRI s use to treat depression and anxiety , amyloid plaque reduction in Alzheimer treatments, Vioxx as a safe chemical treatment for pain , the 'non'addictive nature of synthetic opioids ect ect Those are all 'fine with ' you ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Morris Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 If anyone wants to claim that there was a systematic attempt to steal the election, the burden is on them to provide evidence. In fact, there is no evidence. There is nothing but groundless assertions and smear attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadmjones Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 "Drop boxes" are illegal in Wisconsin , how was it they were used ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eiuol Posted August 9, 2022 Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 11 hours ago, tadmjones said: The specific claim I am making is that it is knowingly false to claim they are safe in the absence of proof and yet that is the claim made and repeated ad nauseam on 'media'. Except there is, but, it doesn't matter, this also means you think pharmaceutical companies are up to no good. You are no different than the people who say that we should not trust GMO foods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadmjones Posted August 9, 2022 Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Eiuol said: Except there is, but, it doesn't matter, this also means you think pharmaceutical companies are up to no good. You are no different than the people who say that we should not trust GMO foods. There are no long term studies on mRNA covid vaccines, none. You are no different than people who place blind faith in institutions. Fear is a mind killer , you are fully boosted , right ? Edited August 9, 2022 by tadmjones Jon Letendre and AlexL 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadmjones Posted August 9, 2022 Report Share Posted August 9, 2022 FBI raided Trump , the same FBI that protected the provably corrupt Biden. Jon Letendre 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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