Jump to content
Objectivism Online Forum

"Illuminati" Website

Rate this topic


Sante

Recommended Posts

There are different views concerning the illuminati. Some say it is a grand conspiracy to enslave people under a fascist regime. Others say that the illuminati are objectivists who advocate freedom, capatalism, and right to happiness (very similar to objectivism). I found this article that explains the illuminati order. http://www.heart7.net/illuminati-order.html .

Is it an accurate reflection? The article supports objectivism , but states that it has been hijacked by Randists.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That has to be one of the dumbest articles I've ever read. The Founders bribed religionists in order to allow them to write a secular Constitution? Objectivism wasn't founded by Ayn Rand? The masses are stupid, idiots, helpless, etc.? Sounds like this guy is going through the common "I hate the world" teenage syndrome. Tripe, nothing more, nothing less. I think this sums up their intentions:

So, until such time when we have a society worthy of liberty, capable and willing to be responsible for their actions and well being; if responsibility is ignored it will have to be imposed.
(italics mine)

The age-old attitude "we know better than the masses, we must choose how they will live."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That has to be one of the dumbest articles I've ever read.  The Founders bribed religionists in order to allow them to write a secular Constitution?  Objectivism wasn't founded by Ayn Rand?  The masses are stupid, idiots, helpless, etc.?  Sounds like this guy is going through the common "I hate the world" teenage syndrome.  Tripe, nothing more, nothing less.

But is there an illuminati? And what is their real agenda?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"So, until such time when we have a society worthy of liberty, capable and willing to be responsible for their actions and well being; if responsibility is ignored it will have to be imposed."

I missed that part. I guess he's implying the use of force.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now is it just me, but for a super duper top secret society hell bent for taking over the world and imposing their iron will on the untermencsh, you'd think they wouldn't have put up a web page. Or maybe it's just me.

Of course the front page of the site does mention that Multiple Personality Disorder should be better known as Multiple Personality Gift (emphasis mine) as well as being the site manager of the MindControlForums.com site. Which is interesting in and of itself. The whole Radiation Rape idea is really quite, well, interesting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think this sums up their intentions:

(italics mine)

The age-old attitude "we know better than the masses, we must choose how they will live."

But don't Objectivists do the same thing? Through lectures and literature Rand is telling the masses how they must live.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

God no.  Is there any initiation of force, is there any choosing done for the masses?  Rand tells men how they can live, not how they must (or else she'll somehow impose it on them).

I understand your point, but don't you think that Rand presented in a way that suggested that one must live by her methods or humanity would be doomed? Also, in Atlas don't you think that the "producers" strike sort of parellels the illuminati intentions of tearing down the system and then rebuilding it? Do you think that the implimentation of a pure Capitalist system will be accomplished with no force at all?

Excuse me if I seem a little ignorant...I'm still learning Objectivism and questioning its validity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you admittedly aren't very familiar with Objectivism, perhaps you should state your questions in the form "It is my impression that such-and-such" rather than "Don't you think such-and-such."

You mistake her intention and her message. Ayn Rand isn't saying "follow me or you shall be doomed, either by your own doing or by my minions forcing Objectivism down your throats." Her purpose was to create an image of the ideal man, not to threaten mankind, or to force them to follow her, but primarily for her own selfish pleasure in realizing this ideal and secondarily for the sight of those willing to use their minds to recognize that her image is the ideal man, thereby creating for herself a world more suited for her form of existence.

As for your point about government, ends don't justify means--the initiation of force is always immoral, even if it means forcing the masses into accepting Capitalism. It is, however, moral to use force in retaliation. This is quite a different use of force, however, than using it to make others accept Capitalism as the only moral system of government.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, I understand the difference now. But what about using force to overthrow the government. If they are using force against us, why can't we use force in retaliation? What's the plan of the objectivists? You want this idealized society, but I havent read any specific plan. How can we make a big enough impact?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The plan is to enlighten those who still use reason in parts of their lives. Are you demanding that Objectivists have some sort of hostile takeover of the government that we freely elected by the majority of the people of the United States (perhaps you've been reading too much into the Illuminati folklore)? The force that's used against citizens of this country is, for the most part, consented, either by direct election or by choosing to stay here in this country. If one feels like there's force being initiated here, one is free to leave.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The plan is to enlighten those who still use reason in parts of their lives.  Are you demanding that Objectivists have some sort of hostile takeover of the government that we freely elected by the majority of the people of the United States (perhaps you've been reading too much into the Illuminati folklore)?  The force that's used against citizens of this country is, for the most part, consented, either by direct election or by choosing to stay here in this country.  If one feels like there's force being initiated here, one is free to leave.

Well if there is no reasonable alternative to vote for what do we do? Refuse to vote? or vote non-confidence? I'm aware that I'm free to leave the country, but isnt that just plain avoidance? Why should i concede my rights?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But what about using force to overthrow the government.  If they are using force against us, why can't we use force in retaliation?  What's the plan of the objectivists?
This is known as the fallacy of perfection -- that unless principles can be perfectly observed, they should be utterly ignored. Force is justified against a government only when it completely rejects reason. That is certainly the case in North Korea, Zimbabwe, Burma, Saddam's Iraq -- but not in the US, Britain, France or Japan.
You want this idealized society, but I havent read any specific plan.  How can we make a big enough impact?
There isn't a "plan". Rand has an essay "What can one do?" that was reprinted in Philosophy: who needs it which I suggest. Basically, the answer is that the nature of the government cannot change until the nature of society -- the people governed -- changes. What is needed is a major change in philosophy.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We? You have to learn what Objectivism is, and act accordingly. I suspect you have the "what does the Objectivist movement say I should do" mentality. Perhaps learning about Objectivism first will give you the answer to the question "what should I do?", and it won't be some memorized answer that you don't yourself understand.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm still learning Objectivism and questioning its validity.

So far, unless I have missed it, I have not seen you question Objectivism at all. Objectivism is a philosophy, the one that Ayn Rand created. It has five branches: metaphysics, epistemology, ethics, politics, and esthetics.

Instead, your questions have been about political strategy and tactics. They are links in a chain of application of philosophy, not of philosophy itself. Here is the chain from most fundamental (philosophy, which applies to all times and places) to most narrow political application:

1. Philosophy.

2. Ideology (application of a philosophy to a particular milieu).

3. Strategy (an action plan dealing with basic problems over a long period).

4. Tactics (many short-term, limited-objective action plans leading to achievement of strategic goals).

5. Individual plans and actions (for example, should I vote for Tony Blair or his conservative opponent, George Bush or John Kerry, this tax-reform plan or that one?)

Suggestion: Spend a few years studying the philosophy before you try applying it to whole countries. But as soon as you understand a new principle, for example, in ethics, you can begin applying it to your own life -- which should be your primary concern.

Edited by BurgessLau
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So far, unless I have missed it, I have not seen you question Objectivism at all. Objectivism is a philosophy, the one that Ayn Rand created. It has five branches: metaphysics, epistemology, ethics, politics, and esthetics.

Instead, your questions have been about political strategy and tactics. They are links in a chain of application of philosophy, not of philosophy itself. Here is the chain from most fundamental (philosophy, which applies to all times and places) to most narrow political application:

1. Philosophy.

2. Ideology (application of a philosophy to a particular milieu).

3. Strategy (an action plan dealing with basic problems over a long period).

4. Tactics (many short-term, limited-objective action plans leading to achievement of strategic goals).

5. Individual plans and actions (for example, should I vote for Tony Blair or his conservative opponent, George Bush or John Kerry, this tax-reform plan or that one?)

Suggestion: Spend a few years studying the philosophy before you try applying it to whole countries. But as soon as you understand a new principle, for example, in ethics, you can begin applying it to your own life -- which should be your primary concern.

thanks, I totally understand that I was way off base. I was getting ahead of myself :) .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is it an accurate reflection?  The article supports objectivism , but states that it has been hijacked by Randists.

You should know that this is a remnant of a fraud that happened a few years back. I recognized the design immediately. I spoke about this in this thread.

Basically, one man created the Illuminati web site and "recruited" people in the non-existent order, giving them access to some "Illuminati" material, some of it being the article you posted. It was mostly gibberish about extraterrestrials, the pyramids, telepathy, etc.

This article, like every other of his articles, seems Objectivist on its face, but it's not. I was fooled by it too then, but back then all I knew about Objectivism was what I read in The Fountainhead.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You should know that this is a remnant of a fraud that happened a few years back. I recognized the design immediately. I spoke about this in this thread.

Basically, one man created the Illuminati web site and "recruited" people in the non-existent order, giving them access to some "Illuminati" material, some of it being the article you posted. It was mostly gibberish about extraterrestrials, the pyramids, telepathy, etc.

This article, like every other of his articles, seems Objectivist on its face, but it's not. I was fooled by it too then, but back then all I knew about Objectivism was what I read in The Fountainhead.

thanks source. thats all I really wanted to know.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 years later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...