About the Russian aggression of Ukraine

[Doug Morris]

20 hours ago, whYNOT said:

Which "first time!"?

2014, when he seized Crimea.

 

[AlexL]

YouTube channel "1420", Daniil Orain, micro-interviews, April 2023, in Moscow. 

Question: "Should we change presidents once in a while?"

 

[Jon Letendre]

Democrat Presidential candidate RFK, Jr:

”There are 14,000 Ukrainian civilians who have died, but 300,000 troops. Russians are killing Ukrainians at a seven-to-one, eight-to one-ratio. They cannot sustain this. Well, what we're being told about this war is just not true.”

[AlexL]

4 hours ago, Jon Letendre said:

Democrat Presidential candidate RFK, Jr:

”There are 14,000 Ukrainian civilians who have died, but 300,000 troops. Russians are killing Ukrainians at a seven-to-one, eight-to one-ratio. They cannot sustain this. Well, what we're being told about this war is just not true.”

Yes, RFK Jr. said that indeed, a lot of publications quoted him.

But what are YOU trying to suggest by quoting RFK Jr. here? That his numbers ARE real? That they are NOT real? 

Edited April 29 by AlexL

[whYNOT]

On 4/28/2023 at 9:26 PM, Doug Morris said:

2014, when he seized Crimea.

 

Yes. That too had its antecedence in the Maidan and the overthrow of government and subsequent unrest/civil war.

The chances of Russia in those circumstances holding control of Crimea-Sebastopol with a new regime in place, now with Ukraine within Nato and EU, were zero. That would be a prized achievement for the West with Crimea ceded by Kyiv to the West: their Navies taking over the traditional base in control of the Black Sea and shipping routes, so cutting off Russia's access--towards the long term goal, isolating and weakening Russia. It must be supposed Putin saw all that coming and moved in swiftly to obviate a (Russian) disaster. I think that action was pragmatic, helped by a great majority of Crimeans in favor of Russian secession. (Still are, whatever the msm suggests). Less territorially pragmatic, and I maintain more humanitarian, was the annexation/secession of the Eastern oblasts - the added plus, the 'land corridor' now opened. It seems to me the western alliance was furious that Putin got in first. It's Crimea they wanted, today even more.

With later events, Nato's military plans and the primary purpose of strengthening the UAF would have been, in early 2022, the taking by force of the Donbass - and Crimea.

Predictably, Putin could not have sat back and allowed this, so we'd be back where we started, with conflict. That one could hypothetically have been a declared war, not a limited, SMO invasion.

Edited April 30 by whYNOT

[whYNOT]

On 4/28/2023 at 11:29 PM, AlexL said:

YouTube channel "1420", Daniil Orain, micro-interviews, April 2023, in Moscow. 

Question: "Should we change presidents once in a while?"

 

Now these ARE good interviews. Same old same old, wherever you look in western societies equally, people for traditionalism v. change, or vice-versa. 'New' values and 'old' values. Conservatism and (neo)-liberalism, sides of the same coin that will both repress freedoms, e.g. free speech.

There are positive signs from these Russian youth who might discover that only individual rights and limited government answer all their concerns.

These divergent opinions show their growth pains. Their country has just the other day emerged from despotism, next a bad period under the weak Yeltsin, and therefore ought not be externally and artificially interfered with by regime overthrow and subsequent political upheavals and conflict. As many outside apparently wish. For now, maybe achieving stability is best.

Edited April 30 by whYNOT

[AlexL]

YouTube channel "1420", Daniil Orain, micro-interviews, April 2023, in Moscow. 

Question: "How is our war with NATO going?"

 

[Dupin]

The war is going pretty well for Russia:

Russia Retaliates for Ukraine’s Attack on Sevastopol

[AlexL]

On 4/29/2023 at 11:17 PM, AlexL said:

On 4/29/2023 at 7:24 PM, Jon Letendre said:

Democrat Presidential candidate RFK, Jr:

”There are 14,000 Ukrainian civilians who have died, but 300,000 troops. Russians are killing Ukrainians at a seven-to-one, eight-to one-ratio. They cannot sustain this. Well, what we're being told about this war is just not true.”

Yes, RFK Jr. said that indeed, a lot of publications quoted him.

But what are YOU trying to suggest by quoting RFK Jr. here? That his numbers ARE real? That they are NOT real? 

No comment, @Jon Letendre ?

[AlexL]

1 hour ago, Dupin said:

The war is going pretty well for Russia:

Russia Retaliates for Ukraine’s Attack on Sevastopol

Could you please explain?

[whYNOT]

Short memories people have, and how msm can spin on a dime for 'expediency'. Their names reel off: Reuters, BBC, CNN...These same Ukraine neo-Nazis who in 2014 were condemned widely by them, are now celebrated in Congress/Parliament/etc.. You are promoting Putin's propaganda to point out this glaring lapse. Some are asking if a lot of Westerners recently became 'nazified' by association/conviction.

https://open.substack.com/pub/askeptic/p/the-msms-ukraine-amnesia?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

 

 

Edited May 5 by whYNOT

[Dupin]

AlexL,

I must rely on reputable commentators who are able to sort through the news lies, and in my considered opinion such are  Col. Douglas Macgregor (ret.),  John Mearsheimer, Ray McGovern,  and  Seymour Hersh.

In the first third of Macgregor’s latest (May 3) interview he talks about the war and says the Ukraine battle losses are ten times those of Russia:
A massive Russian offensive is terminating Ukraine
 

 

 

 

[AlexL]

OK, and how did you establish that Col. Douglas Macgregor (ret.), John Mearsheimer, Ray McGovern,  and  Seymour Hersh are reliable, that is that you can trust their opinions without doing every time your own research??

Is it because you have established that their facts are right, or is it because you simply like their conclusions?

PS: some illustrious names are missing, like William Scott Ritter, John Mark Dougan and other darlings of the Russia's governmental media...

For example, in the official Russia's news today: RT на русском, Бывший разведчик США Риттер [Ritter] считает, что Россия нанесёт поражение ВСУ к началу осени

Edited May 5 by AlexL

[Dupin]

I believe the people I mentioned are reputable for the usual reasons – and AlexL knows full well what those reasons are:  Their credentials, their past, their manner, their logical presentation, is what they say consistent with itself, is what they say consistent with what I know, etc.  All this is obvious.

AlexL is engaging in  “How do you know that you know?” ==> “You can’t know anything.” ==> “You are wrong.” baloney.

He writes: “PS: some illustrious names are missing, like William Scott Ritter, John Mark Dougan and other darlings of the Russia’s governmental media...”  – what a nasty piece of work is this AlexL.

 

[AlexL]

14 hours ago, Dupin said:

I believe the people I mentioned are reputable for the usual reasons – and AlexL knows full well what those reasons are:  Their credentials, their past, their manner, their logical presentation, is what they say consistent with itself, is what they say consistent with what I know, etc.  All this is obvious.

Yes, the reasons you listed (plus person's reliance on facts and on shared values) do indeed characterize a person's reputability. For exactly these reasons those persons are not reputable. For some this is my own observation. For all - the corresponding Wiki pages (cross-checked with references and the "Talk" pages) show what unsavory characters they are.

Quote

AlexL is engaging in  “How do you know that you know?” ==> “You can’t know anything.” ==> “You are wrong.” baloney.

No, AlexL is not at all engaged in this. You seem to have the need for straw-manning; better leave my argument unanswered, it would have been less shameful. 

Quote

He writes: “PS: some illustrious names are missing, like William Scott Ritter, John Mark Dougan and other darlings of the Russia’s governmental media...”  – what a nasty piece of work is this AlexL.

Unfortunately for you, what I wrote is the exact truth, an inconvenient one, it seems....

PS: you did not answer an older question of mine - here. Or you were simply trolling?

[whYNOT]

Whose version of events are you going to believe?

https://youtu.be/BE2ddbIxavE

Or

https://youtu.be/DKwJ_7-QPUs

More importantly, who could have averted a war - and who invited one and, presently, would let it escalate out of control?

 

 

[AlexL]

Life in Russia: 1.5 Years Later, by Setarko, Russia, 27 May 2023

[AlexL]

Life in Russia: 1.5 Years Later, by Setarko, Russia, 27 May 2023

"it's been almost 1.5 years since life in Russia changed dramatically. But today I would like to talk not about the life and prosperity (or decline) of the country, but about the lives of ordinary people in it. There are two points of view. According to the first, people in Russia have lost access to hundreds of services and services, people are leaving the country by the millions, and it is becoming increasingly difficult to survive. According to the other, the country has only benefited from the special military operation that was launched, the people have rallied, import substitution is in full swing, and the next few years will be OUR years. Well, let me, as a really average resident of Russia, try to describe what has really changed in our lives during this time."

 

Edited May 27 by AlexL

[whYNOT]

Only seen by a few on alternate media on the occasion of an African delegation to Russia and Ukraine. Like this fellow does, it's enough to make one seethe for what transpired since and what didn't have to be. I received disbelief for my conclusion that the western powers wanted - encouraged - an invasion and for the war to not be stopped. As they still do--now, for Ukraine's last army to go on fighting to the death, to  give Ukraine a "better bargaining position". For all that they contemptuously threw away the best bargaining position in Istanbul back then. Because never heard, then or since, from the msm, was the fact of the rudiments of a peace treaty signed over one year and 100's of thousands of deaths ago. The West blocked implementation, as they did with Minsk. It was of course critical that the public could not know such central facts. It may have shown them to be warmongers indifferent to the lives of Ukrainians. (To kill Russians is after all their stated goal). This shows Putin was a sincere partner in a mutual security arrangement and peace agreement. Clearly, it was not the intention of Russia to 'conquer' Kyiv and Ukraine (nor Europe!) as he simultaneously to the meeting did pull back troops surrounding Kyiv (falsely hailed as a defeat for Russia). His stated goals were upfront, nothing more nor less, and quite reasonable for any president obligated to protect citizens and national borders, not just for now but for a long term future. The Western govts and Kyiv's arrogance, treachery and deceit are coming to their logical end, one very bad for Ukraine. The ROW (rest of the world) is justifiably learning to view with distrust the word and contracts made by the First World leadership.

 

Edited June 19 by whYNOT

[whYNOT]

On 5/27/2023 at 9:39 PM, AlexL said:

Life in Russia: 1.5 Years Later, by Setarko, Russia, 27 May 2023

"it's been almost 1.5 years since life in Russia changed dramatically. But today I would like to talk not about the life and prosperity (or decline) of the country, but about the lives of ordinary people in it. There are two points of view. According to the first, people in Russia have lost access to hundreds of services and services, people are leaving the country by the millions, and it is becoming increasingly difficult to survive. According to the other, the country has only benefited from the special military operation that was launched, the people have rallied, import substitution is in full swing, and the next few years will be OUR years. Well, let me, as a really average resident of Russia, try to describe what has really changed in our lives during this time."

 

Sanctions, embargoes and the like, are the weapons of statism, like wars are. They don't work in practice and only hurt the poorest people who (in theory) are supposed to react by rising up against their rulers at their own possible sacrifice. Much of the time the sanctioned country adapts to and replaces their losses, learns to manufacture their own products and finds covert ways to import and export commodities. Sanctions are a collectivist punishment against a citizen of another state which hasn't the approval of this group of wealthier, more powerful, "democratic" governments-states, acting in collusion. Just as properly one individual or a company ought to be doing business with another in a foreign land by their own choice, uninterfered with by his government's trade regulations, etc. - if he later so chooses not to, he cannot "sanction" that ex-partner (nor "go to war" with them), he simply ends the deal. The "blowback" from sanctions on Russia onto the people, industries and businesses around the world who depended on the markets in and supplies from Russia, is slowly sinking in economically and financially. We are being hurt more than Russians are, so sanctions are sacrificial of individuals even outside Russia, so are immoral.

Edited June 19 by whYNOT

[AlexL]

2 hours ago, whYNOT said:

Only seen by a few on alternate media [...]

A few??? This is a lie.

[whYNOT]

On 6/19/2023 at 8:42 AM, AlexL said:

A few??? This is a lie.

Therefore...? And your argument is...?

We shall see shortly how widely the news (not new here on O.O) is disseminated that government leaders and institutions, NATO and the EU and the main media, were complicit in a). avoiding peace negotiations from the start b). hushing that up.

If it does not hit the headlines today, provoking public outrage at being stampeded into this altogether unnecessary war, I may not be surprised. 

That's all you do, nay say. Can you venture an opinion of your own?

Edited June 21 by whYNOT

[AlexL]

42 minutes ago, whYNOT said:

On 6/19/2023 at 8:42 AM, AlexL said:

A few??? This is a lie.

Therefore...?

Therefore you continue to spread lies on this Objectivism (???) Forum.

No, I am convinced that you are not lying, you certainly believe 100%.

But this is worse, because you then are one of the so many useful idiots.

But you are in good company, because they are often decent and sometimes even outstanding people. Undeservingly so (in good company, I mean), because I don't think you belong to either of these two categories.

[AlexL]

A possible military coup against the Russia's leadership by the Wagner Group ?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66005256

 

Quote

 

The head of Russia's Wagner mercenary group is being investigated for inciting mutiny after accusing the Russian military of a launching a deadly missile strike on his troops.

 

Yevgeny Prigozhin said the "evil" in the military leadership must be stopped and vowed to "march for justice".

Authorities have denied the strike and demanded he halt "illegal actions".

President Putin was aware of the situation and all necessary measures were being taken, his spokesman said.

It represents an astonishing escalation of infighting inside Russia.

The Wagner Group is a paramilitary organisation that has been fighting alongside Russian forces in Ukraine. In recent months, Prigozhin has become increasingly vocal in his criticism of Russia's military leadership.

In an audio message posted to the social media platform Telegram, he said "huge numbers" of his fighters had been killed in a strike by the Russian military on a Wagner camp, though he provided no evidence to support his claims.

"Those who killed our lads, and tens of thousands of lives of Russian soldiers [in the war in Ukraine] will be punished," he said.

"I ask you not to resist. Anyone who does will be considered a threat and destroyed. That goes for any checkpoints and aviation on our way.

"Presidential power, the government, the police and Russian guard will work as usual.

"This is not a military coup, but a march of justice. Our actions do not interfere with the troops in any way."

• Russia mercenary boss blames war on defence minister

Russian state media reports that the FSB, Russia's security services, have opened a criminal case against Prigozhin, accusing him of "calling for an armed rebellion".

The Russian defence ministry said in a statement that "all reports by Prigozhin spread on social media" of Russian strikes on Wagner camps were "not true and are an information provocation".

The Kremlin has also said "necessary measures are being taken", according to Russian news agency Interfax.

It comes after a video message in May in which Prigozhin stood surrounded by the bodies of his troops and berated Mr Shoigu - as well as Chief of the General Staff Valery Gerasimov - for not providing them with enough ammunition.

Earlier on Friday, he said the war in Ukraine had been started "so that Shoigu could become a Marshal".

"The Ministry of Defence is trying to deceive the public, deceive the president and tell a story that there was some crazy aggression by Ukraine, that - together with the whole Nato bloc - Ukraine was planning to attack us," he said.

 

Edited June 23 by AlexL

[Boydstun]

Since the preceding post by Alex, Putin and Prigozhin reached an agreement, avoiding armed conflict among the Russian mercenary group and the regular Russian troops. I see this as a victory for Putin in his Ukraine quest. Those mercenary troops, as well as the Chechen mercenary troops, are now returned to Ukraine to continue Putin's aggression and hegemony. Prigozhin in exile in Belarus is surely a dead man walking, although Putin may leave him alive until he has secured unity of the Wagner troops with the regular Russian troops, all under regular Russian military command. I still think Putin will not enter negotiations bringing peace to Ukraine until after the US elections of 2024, hoping for Republican wins that might cut US Military aid to Ukraine and bring him advances in the war for bargaining position or perhaps victory.