whYNOT Posted October 23 Report Share Posted October 23 (edited) 9 hours ago, AlexL said: You obviously forgot(?) why I asked you the above question ! You implied that, while Agnes Hellström is indeed a "peace activist", she is NOT a "pacifists against self-defence". And you presented no proof that she is indeed FOR self-defence. The larger context of the above theme was that you approvingly quoted/referenced her as an argument that Sweden's joining of NATO is indeed a big mistake. So, again: Is Agnes Hellström indeed for self-defence? Can you present some evidence? For example in Israel's case? I take this particular case because YOU are (unexpectedly for me) FOR Israel's right for self-defense in the current conflict. On 10/21/2023 at 3:04 AM, whYNOT said: And that's a slur against her? I'd believe more "peace activists" and less warmongers was what was required. For "peace", so long as they are not pacifists against self-defence, mind. The above is what I wrote. "As long as they are not pacifists against self-defense..." I have no interest if Agnes is a peace activist pro- or against self-defense. Anyhow, they are not mutually exclusive, she might be for world peace while also for the right of defense. I do not need to know either. She and her host made a compelling case for Sweden and Swedes being fear-mongered to join NATO. That corresponds to what I read and surmised. My interest in Agnes ends there. Edited October 23 by whYNOT Jon Letendre 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grames Posted October 24 Report Share Posted October 24 On 10/21/2023 at 9:33 PM, necrovore said: He sees the generally pro-Ukraine position of the mainstream Western media as being a result of the activity of a centrally-driven propaganda machine - a conspiracy, IOW. He sees no other possible explanation. He ain't wrong on this. The CIA, State Department and Pentagon have been writing the headlines in this country for decades now. People in news organizations cooperate willingly for the social status and the promise of future inside information which helps their careers and personal wealth. This is so commonplace and ordinary that some people don't even recognize it as corruption. Jon Letendre 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grames Posted October 24 Report Share Posted October 24 On 10/19/2023 at 10:24 PM, whYNOT said: Not like you to reverse causation. Why does Gaza even exist? Big picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stansfield123 Posted October 24 Report Share Posted October 24 On 10/22/2023 at 9:29 AM, whYNOT said: Nah, in this thread, this is a follow-the-government-line "fan-forum". One can't go wrong faithfully obliging the Establishment. I have no idea what any of that means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexL Posted October 24 Author Report Share Posted October 24 On 10/23/2023 at 3:00 PM, necrovore said: When you imply that someone is a conspiracy theorist, that is a statement about the person rather than the argument they are making. Rather than the argument, you say?? Here is again my description of @whYNOT's argument/position and my refutation: Quote He sees the generally pro-Ukraine position of the mainstream Western media as being a result of the activity of a centrally-driven propaganda machine - a conspiracy, IOW. He sees no other possible explanation. And @whYNOT gave no evidence that the entire Western media is centrally-driven. So that there was no ad hominem fallacy on my part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadmjones Posted October 24 Report Share Posted October 24 Is the notion that that CIA coined the term 'conspiracy theory(ist)' as a propaganda tool to dissuade people from engaging in the idea that JFK's assassination may not be the result of a lone wolf actor, a theory about a conspiracy ? or an actual action of the CIA? Trump is a Russian agent!! Proof pending.. Covid infection is lethal!! Covid mRNA injections are safe and effective !! Snickers really satisfy!! Yeah , what is Tony on about. I'm sure you just mean , that you have to challenge his assertion that the 'entire' , every single vestige of the 'media' is centrally directed verbatim yada , yada. All lives matter is racist!! Ukraine is basically Kansas!! Who wouldn't display the colors?! a Traitor that's who !! Jon Letendre and Grames 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grames Posted October 25 Report Share Posted October 25 With World Focused On Israel, WaPo Boasts CIA Is Behind Brazen Assassinations Of Russians BY TYLER DURDEN TUESDAY, OCT 24, 2023 - 07:05 PM At a moment the globe's attention is by and large completely focused on events in Gaza, The Washington Post has this week published a bombshell report which vindicates Moscow's worst fears. Up to now, any pundit daring to write that Putin's accusations that the West has for years backed a covert campaign to destabilize Russia while stoking the 2014 (and after) civil war in Donbass, was smeared as a 'pro-Kremlin propagandist'. But now, the D.C. establishment's premier newspaper is openly admitting that the CIA is actively running covert ops inside Russia, which has included the killing of journalist and geopolitical commentator Darya Dugina, the daughter of Alexaner Dugin. Another "conspiracy theory" has been belatedly admitted as conspiracy fact. The report stunningly documents of this "shadow war" that, "The missions have involved elite teams of Ukrainian operatives drawn from directorates that were formed, trained, and equipped in close partnership with the CIA, according to current and former Ukrainian and US officials. Since 2015, the CIA has spent tens of millions of dollars to transform Ukraine’s Soviet-formed services into potent allies against Moscow, officials said." Link: https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/world-focused-israel-gaza-wapo-boasts-cia-has-been-behind-brazen-assassinations Link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/23/ukraine-cia-shadow-war-russia/ Jon Letendre 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexL Posted October 25 Author Report Share Posted October 25 (edited) On 10/23/2023 at 8:16 PM, whYNOT said: The above is what I wrote. "As long as they are not pacifists against self-defense..." I have no interest if Agnes is a peace activist pro- or against self-defense. I am convinced that, if you read again what I wrote, you will get my point. (My point was about the connection between you linking approvingly to Agnes Hellström's opinion and the relevance of her kind of pacifism.) Edited October 25 by AlexL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexL Posted October 25 Author Report Share Posted October 25 12 hours ago, tadmjones said: Is the notion that that CIA [...] I'm sure you just mean [...] yada , yada. Is this for me? If it is, then first cool down. Then explain, calmly, your objection to my comments. tadmjones and Jon Letendre 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whYNOT Posted October 25 Report Share Posted October 25 (edited) There'd not have been a war without close collusion of Western Gvts./Nato with their flunky western media. The immense sacrifices demanded requires sanction from unthinking, misinformed majorities, driven by emotions whipped up by the media. Ukraine in some regional wrangle with Russia? Were there solutions on hand? Yes. Simply slap temporary sanctions on both; tell them both to behave, stand down and begin negotiations--instantly - before conflict escalates. Why is it our business? - stay out. If just in retrospect, one can now see that was too simple or rational; an unsuitable resolution contrary to the ultimate goals of the 'powers that be. Therefore, they intended war. Edited October 25 by whYNOT AlexL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grames Posted October 26 Report Share Posted October 26 Ukraine will never get another dime from the American congress now that the new Speaker of the House Mike Johnson is so adamantly against it. Ukraine cannot continue without American funding. Ukraine will require time to accept the inevitable, and Russia will now press its advantage and no longer feels pressure to negotiate. Therefore much territory will change hands on the ground over the next few months as Ukraine runs out of ammunition, men and money for salaries and Swiss bank accounts. Jon Letendre 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexL Posted October 26 Author Report Share Posted October 26 26 minutes ago, Grames said: Ukraine will never get another dime from the American congress [...] We'll see soon. I'm glad for you that this would make you happy😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whYNOT Posted October 26 Report Share Posted October 26 (edited) 9 hours ago, Grames said: Ukraine will never get another dime from the American congress now that the new Speaker of the House Mike Johnson is so adamantly against it. Ukraine cannot continue without American funding. Ukraine will require time to accept the inevitable, and Russia will now press its advantage and no longer feels pressure to negotiate. Therefore much territory will change hands on the ground over the next few months as Ukraine runs out of ammunition, men and money for salaries and Swiss bank accounts. The "last Ukrainian" perhaps will survive. It was a given that, once committed, Russia would not be driven out; Ukraine would be largely drained, for - "principles". Victory, at all costs, to keep Russia in its place. Mediate with Putin and make concessions - initially agreed upon by Kiev before outside interference- (and his quite reasonable security demands), long before arriving at this point - unthinkable. Edited October 26 by whYNOT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grames Posted October 29 Report Share Posted October 29 On 10/26/2023 at 1:19 PM, whYNOT said: ... Mediate with Putin and make concessions - unthinkable. Probably correct. The situation will progress until the Ukrainian government is no longer required to think, merely comply. Jon Letendre 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexL Posted November 10 Author Report Share Posted November 10 (edited) Recent micro-poll in Rostov region of Russia: Edited November 10 by AlexL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grames Posted November 20 Report Share Posted November 20 Managing expectations. Shifting the goalposts. Redefining success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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