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About the Russian aggression of Ukraine

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AlexL
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On 11/9/2022 at 11:40 AM, AlexL said:

 

I found out that the common denominator of such commentators and/or publications is time and again the good old wide-spread anti-Americanism.

Your understanding is usually shallow.

It is not 'anti - American' to be strongly against NATO without whose egregious manipulations and military-political-economic, um, "support" for Ukraine (read - belligerence against Russia) this regional war would have been a non-starter (and could surely have been resolved peacefully between the two countries involved).

It is not 'anti-American' to be against the conflict-escalating, self-sacrificial reactions of this present US Administration.

This is ostensively not a war that furthers America's self-defense nor national self-interest.

Therefore, many "such commentators" and myself are distinctly PRO-American. Where does that leave all you others?

On the war-mongering side are aligned the indoctrinated, useful idiots who may not know they are are in fact, anti-life. The purpose of the avalanche of western propaganda is to conceal one fact: humans are being sacrificed to the West's "noble intentions". 

Edited by whYNOT
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15 minutes ago, whYNOT said:

the indoctrinated, useful idiots...

It is difficult to find idiots more useful to Putin's fascist regime than the ones who spread propaganda of Russia's governmental outlets like Russia Today, TASS, RIA Novosti - even on this Objectivism forum.

The fact that they are doing it for free, precisely out of idiocy, is even more damning : they don't even have the excuse of having a family to feed...

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On 11/11/2022 at 12:44 AM, AlexL said:

It is difficult to find idiots more useful to Putin's fascist regime than the ones who spread propaganda of Russia's governmental outlets like Russia Today, TASS, RIA Novosti - even on this Objectivism forum.

The fact that they are doing it for free, precisely out of idiocy, is even more damning : they don't even have the excuse of having a family to feed...

Not a clue what you are going on about, what excuse, feeding what family? Explain. But you do remember who imposed the sanctions? Not Russia. The Western authorities did this and the pain of shortages etc. rebounds on their own populaces, and the powers helped foment this war for some underhand purposes, the economic consequences to be felt by everyone.

Those useful -and obedient- idiots who are in the majority in the EU and Britain--are convinced self-sacrifice (you heard about altruism in "Objectivism", I guess) is the ¬moral¬ thing to do -because their Gvt's told them so and their media created a false narrative that appeals to their feelings - done to "punish" Putin and bleed Russia, rather than disdain to negotiate with him.

(If they'd done so early on, any negotiations would unfortunately have revealed the unreported and brutal war that Ukraine had been carrying out since 2015 - that would have compromised the images of Kyiv's innocence and Putin's inherent evil, to the world. That wouldn't do; the talks were blocked).

Societies will suffer and the Ukrainians suffer. Simply because a Story has been constructed replacing the reality that takes in the useful idiots. Who don't hear the true causes for the invasion, or if they do, evade and call it 'Russian propaganda'.

I see you are highly sensitive to anything outside of your select western propaganda. Naturally you 'd object to reading possible facts that collide with your belief system. Besides, I've quoted RT, not the others, little. With your emotional reaction to RT you can't realize that most of their news items are lifted from the wire, Reuters, AP, with little embellishment and comment and not written by staff, or abbreviated re-writes.

Edited by whYNOT
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11 hours ago, whYNOT said:
On 11/10/2022 at 11:44 PM, AlexL said:

The fact that they [the idiots spreading Putin's Russia propaganda] are doing it for free, precisely out of idiocy, is even more damning : they don't even have the excuse of having a family to feed...

Not a clue what you are going on about, what excuse, feeding what family? Explain.

And yet it is very clear. Reread. If you still don't understand, ask the people around you or from this forum.

As for the rest - it is the same old agitprop you are obsessively repeating but were unable to justify.

Edited by AlexL
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1 hour ago, AlexL said:

And yet it is very clear. Reread. If you still don't understand, ask the people around you or from this forum.

As for the rest - it is the same old agitprop you are obsessively repeating but were unable to justify.

"If you don't already know no explanation is possible". I've heard that line from propagandists and mystics.

No use talking with you.

Edited by whYNOT
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3 hours ago, whYNOT said:
4 hours ago, AlexL said:

And yet it is very clear. Reread. If you still don't understand, ask the people around you or from this forum.

"If you don't already know no explanation is possible". I've heard that line from propagandists and mystics.

No use talking with you.

This is not what I said, but your misrepresentation is something you have an answer to. Idiocy confirmed again.

Edited by AlexL
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On 11/10/2022 at 5:10 PM, whYNOT said:

The purpose of the avalanche of western propaganda is to conceal one fact: humans are being sacrificed to the West's "noble intentions". 

Yeah, Russia is heroically trying to save the people of Ukraine, led by Putin. If it wasn't for the West, people would stop dying. Russia would be able to unleash freedom upon Ukraine. 

On 11/10/2022 at 5:10 PM, whYNOT said:

American' to be strongly against NATO without whose egregious manipulations and military-political-economic, um, "support" for Ukraine

Yeah, Russia was always so nice ever since Putin came to power. Why would so many countries react defensively. :( 

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On 11/13/2022 at 11:45 PM, Eiuol said:

Yeah, Russia is heroically trying to save the people of Ukraine, led by Putin. If it wasn't for the West, people would stop dying. Russia would be able to unleash freedom upon Ukraine. 

Yeah, Russia was always so nice ever since Putin came to power. Why would so many countries react defensively. :( 

If you don't know by now who/what 'started it' you never will. Tough how it's turned out and will turn out for Ukraine, and I've not suggested Putin is nice, but conflict can be the consequence of denying democracy and equal rights to a part of the population by reason of ethnicity (and 'the sins of their fathers'). 

"Why would so many countries...."etc? They were gulled into panic by academics etc. into believing they were next to be invaded.

The 'self-fulfilling prophecy' of NATO: "we told you Russia would be dangerous again - one day". It only took about 30 years of NATO aggravations to finally have its (null) reason for continued existence to be vindicated.

Human nature, simple psychology, you treat others with suspicion or hostility they eventually turn unfriendly.

Edited by whYNOT
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2 hours ago, Jon Letendre said:

Do any of you clowns wish to take back your support for Ukraine now that we know Zelensky tried to start WWIII by lying about whose actions caused deaths of innocents in a NATO country recently?

The list goes on. How far will he go, is the concern. For the umpteenth time, desperate Zel has tried to drag in (more, to the nihilist extreme) foreign assistance and armies for outcomes of acts he knows were self-inflicted, not Russian doings. "Projection" as it's been called.

But let's not ruin his idealized image!

Edited by whYNOT
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15 hours ago, Jon Letendre said:

Do any of you clowns wish to take back your support for Ukraine now that we know Zelensky tried to start WWIII by lying about whose actions caused deaths of innocents in a NATO country recently?

This is completely ridiculous and the clown is you, as it will result from the following.
0. The FACTS: it seems, as of today, that Ukraine was trying to knock down a Russian missile, but the Ukrainian anti-missile fell a few km inside the Polish border and killed two persons.
The Russian Missile was probably directed at Lviv, some dozen of km from the Polish border, and was part of the Russian campaign of destroying mostly civilian energy infrastructure before the approaching winter. This is arguably a war crime. The aim of this campaign was publicly admitted by Russia’s military
1. Looking retrospectively, it was a serious PR blunder; besides, no Zelensky’s words are capable of making NATO invoke Article 5 and possibly start WWIII
2. WW3 would not be in Zelensky’s interest at all, because Ukraine would be the first victim; his interest would be in getting more, and more performing weapons. And also to convince NATO of the obvious: that Russian military logistics inside Russia is fair game for Ukraine.
3. During this incident USA and NATO were from the beginning extremely prudent; this alone refutes all claims that USA/NATO looks for an excuse to attack Russia.
4. In a war shit happens, and the principal responsibility lies on the aggressor – unless there is proof that the other party targeted civilians. 
Now, who is the clown?
No, I do NOT take back my support for Ukraine just because of someone’s blunder: my support is much more principled than that.

Edited by AlexL
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Most incompetent false flag operation ever.

"The S-300 traveled east to west. Unless the Ukrainian operator who launched the S-300 was drunk on his ass, it is impossible to “accidentally” fire this air defense missile in the wrong direction."

Ukraine's Epic Fail At Manufacturing a False Flag - A Son of the New American Revolution (sonar21.com)

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10 hours ago, Jon Letendre said:

Oh, they were trying to knock down a Russian missile "probably directed at Lviv" and missed? So, the supposed Russian missiles hit Lviv? No? Hmmm. That story needs work.

Your map needs work.

You could start by showing Lviv, the path of the Russian missile, and where the countermissile was fired from.

  

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On 11/17/2022 at 9:45 PM, Doug Morris said:

Your map needs work.

You are speaking to a guy that literally believes Q is a real person, and everything about that. Indeed, the missile missing was a catastrophic error, but the website he links doesn't get into the evidence that it is the missile that they claim it is, which is crucial to demonstrating that the Ukraine did it on purpose. Frankly, I think it is most likely that the missile operator was "drunk on his ass" like the article suggests as an alternative explanation. 

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Given things like the Delta Situational Awareness System and other intelligence capabilities of satellite imaging , Zelensky could/should have known the relative possibilities of the missile's trajectory and range. Just like his Russian counterparts he tried to propagandize the incident to inflame the reaction and goad NATO into increasing action.

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On 11/17/2022 at 11:41 AM, Jon Letendre said:

"The S-300 traveled east to west. Unless the Ukrainian operator who launched the S-300 was drunk on his ass, it is impossible to “accidentally” fire this air defense missile in the wrong direction."

I think there's an "innocent" explanation for the trajectory of the missile:

Is it possible that the target, regardless of its origin or direction, was to the west of the defense missile's launch point at the time of launch?

Then if the defense missile missed its target, it could have possibly continued further west, across the Polish border.

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There certainly IS an innocent explanation.

The Russians are innocent. Zelensky executed a desperate and inept false flag. This fits nicely with his clamoring for NATO involvement instead of admitting their own actions, doesn't it? Sometimes the simplest explanation ... 

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On 11/20/2022 at 8:09 PM, Jon Letendre said:

There certainly IS an innocent explanation.

The Russians are innocent. Zelensky executed a desperate and inept false flag. This fits nicely with his clamoring for NATO involvement instead of admitting their own actions, doesn't it? Sometimes the simplest explanation ... 

I'd agree with some here, Jon. This was not to be a manufactured false flag, but an accident by Ukraine's defences, plain and simple. Zelensky, who indeed has knowledge of other deliberate false flag attempts*, can certainly be blamed for still trying to make hay out of this mishap well after the evidence came in.

Whether his self-righteous hysterics to bring on a major war damage his public credibility, we shall see, though doubtful.

*take for one, Ukraine's ongoing for over a month shelling of the nuclear power station which neither the craven IAEA inspectors nor a subservient western media have the courage and integrity to openly condemn Kyiv for. An order from Ukraine's sponsors in Whitehall or Washington would stop the attacks in an instant. That they do not, but would risk widespread fallout is simply incredible.

So settled is the global brainwashing and Russia fear and loathing that if anything disastrous occurs, obviously, the Russians dunnit!

Edited by whYNOT
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3 hours ago, whYNOT said:

A Russian translator's story. "Not knowing is worse"

https://youtu.be/0OysQ7yQl_o

I watched about 1/3 of the video.

Now: what is your point, your message with this reference ? What should I pay attention to in the rest of this video ? What does this video prove, in your view ?

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5 hours ago, AlexL said:

I watched about 1/3 of the video.

Now: what is your point, your message with this reference ? What should I pay attention to in the rest of this video ? What does this video prove, in your view ?

Some individuals need to know and find out for themselves. One upset young Russian woman horrified with the war found that she had no clue of true events in Eastern Ukraine, as stifled and distorted by western propaganda, and modified her moral judgments when she heard and saw for herself. An extraordinary independence in times when most others need to be told what to think. 

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