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Response to Stephen Boydstun’s long comment on my OP about US Expansionism and Evil of the UN.

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Jacob Smith
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Thank you Stephen,

Most important: Lot more information and answers to your several questions are available on that author’s FB account, link: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000921224448     See Post nos 51 to 54 available at the very top. NOTE: the author says, FB-Posts are only a brief summary, he has written books on the topics, but because of persecution, cannot publish them.

 

Continuing with the response to your comment on my previous post, again Thank you.

Your long comment is a huge morale-booster for me – I thought my post would be neglected or be lost due to digression of useless comments. As a starter, I would still thank if you or somebody advised me how to edit my post, I could not find the means, and I want to remove that unlawful word from my post.

As I read somewhere, Ayn Rand is most read in India after the US – but I think it is only as stories, without implications to day to day life and Indian politics – of-course another factor too is there – 1% of India is 14 million, so even if so many read Ayn Rand, they will not matter – in India the illiterates are too many, and those who can sway them, means deceive them by speeches etc, govern the country – so Ayn Rand / English readers don’t matter politically. Some inconsequential aspects of Western Philosophy may exist during graduation, but usually only those aspects which have at least some consonance with ancient Indian philosophy. Plato appears every year during graduation for the obvious reason – his mysticism matches with India’s – books are available showing how he is similar to, or the same, as ancient Indian philosophy (Upanishads to be specific).

Generally, Ayn Rand types of Westerners are considered as murderers for preaching evil of ego and selfishness! (That is why that author of FB-Posts has said elsewhere that he is persecuted / ostracized.) It would be too much to expect Bastiat to be known in India barring some individuals.

Following topics you evoked are handled in the above FB-Posts: Plato’s remarks on democracy, Socialism and Nehru (Gandhi is Father of Nation), present leader / regime uses religion / hate of minorities to build it’s vote-block.

UN as world-govt:                  There is so much misunderstanding about British colonization, about the UN that we will HAVE TO talk about it in detail if we want a real understanding, and which we will do subsequently – presently, just see the above FB-Posts -- Ayn Rand on UN too appears there. Americans don’t like their past relation with the British, BUT: present successive govts are worse, and surely taking America to the abyss.

Ancient Indian philosophy, Rig Veda etc – other than Western philosophy of individualism (which today’s western rulers are destroying) all other philosophies are savagery, end into sacrifice and non-egoism so that rulers can crush the ruled under them – the essence of that philosophy, viz unselfishness and non-egoism, is so much infused in Indians’ heads that it cannot be taken out – so see its consequence on today’s rule in India in the above FB-posts.

Thanks again and hope to continue the dialogue further.

Edited by Jacob Smith
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Jacob, is the Nitin Desai of the Facebook link the same person written about here?

I like the priority he gives to federal budgets getting out of the red, as well as his not neglecting the deficit spending by either the Left welfare boosters and the Right war boosters (and delighted I'm not the only one who remembers VP Cheney's statement to G.W. Bush that Reagan had shown that deficits don't matter).

The author Desai at his FB page takes for granted that the American Founding Fathers knew what was capitalism and approved of it. I think that moves too fast. From the fact that WE know private property and freedom leads to capitalism it does not follow that because the FF supported private property and freedom, they would have supported what we call laissez-faire capitalism. Historical developments should not, I think, be seen as driven by logical implications, even when the logic is not the Hegelian silliness. Consider.

I appreciate he author's holding high religious tolerance and the Enlightenment. 

Greek states became more democratic during the era of classical efflorescence. I am not aware of any scholarship showing that democracy brought on the fall of classical Greece.*

A good book on the long history culminating in the concept of individual rights protected in the US constitution is:

Scan 9.jpeg

(Click on image for ease of reading.)

It is not illegal in the US to refer to the retarded as "retarded." In the US, also, there are not any laws against hate speech. As for the rules on this forum, hate speech might be treading near the cliff, but I doubt writing "retarded person" is precarious with the rules.

When you wrote "illiterate", did you mean literally that they did not learn to read or that they learned to read, but choose not to read, or that they read only junk, or that any reading they do conveying ideas, they do not learn from such reading?

 

 

Edited by Boydstun
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3 hours ago, Jacob Smith said:

As a starter, I would still thank if you or somebody advised me how to edit my post, I could not find the means, and I want to remove that unlawful word from my post.

As I understand it, you have a limited amount of time in which to edit your post, and once that expires, there is nothing you can do.  You could try saying you'd like the moderators to fix it, and specifying just what you want to change it to, and see if they're able and willing to fix it.

 

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16 hours ago, Boydstun said:

Jacob, is the Nitin Desai of the Facebook link the same person written about here?

 

 

 

Stephen,

The two Nitin Desais referred to in your link are different, are more famous – one is Bollywood and the other is a top level bureaucrat of UN, today the most evil institution on earth, and the biggest danger to America because the Dem-Libs are partnering with them, want them into US – Rep-Conzs are weak against them in intellectuality.

“Our” Nitin Desai is an Ayn Rand follower and unfortunately (as is sure to befall him in India), instead of being famous, he has suffered fanatic orthodoxy during upbringing and is ostracized for changing his status in society. But he has loads of ideas, and it will be a sort of MORAL SIN IF WE DON’T DO ANYTHING AT ALL TO HELP HIM BRING THEM OUT – it will mean we are not loyal to our own principles, that life is a mere pretense and time-pass for all of us without any serious commitment, unbecoming to our assumption of Objectivism.

About American founding fathers knowing capitalism: Unfortunately, many statements are available in AR’s book on Capitalism that 1780s to 1900 was the best capitalistic period in human history, capitalism was practiced the best then, neither previously nor later!            Based on their achievements, later-day thinkers added further knowledge about capitalism – Isabel Paterson, Austrian School, Ayn Rand etc to name a few – BUT: these only refined to high-class theories what the founding fathers had built into American constitution / way of life.                     They had held prolonged discussions with Adam Smith considered to be father of capitalism, and Europeans like Montesquieu. laissez-faire capitalism actually existed between 1780s to 1900, the term originated around 1650 in France ß see AR’s book. Against that, despite refinement, today we are gone, Soviet Press ridiculed Western countries about welfare schemes!

Desai has NOT said Greeks fell because of democracy but that democracy introduced weakness into them – people of lower strata rebelled too often against the rulers, which is what Plato has criticized democracy for and described in a few sentences, not even paragraphs – it aggravated their fall.           But as far as Romans are concerned, the fall was mainly due to the republic turning into democracy, the friction between Patricians and Plebeians, finally taken over by the dictator.

Majority of American concepts including liberty, Republic with checks and balances etc came from antiquity only, more from Rome! Washington, B Franklin and many others were ardent admirers of several Romans like Cato as the topmost example. Even today when people like Rand Paul use filibustering, it is a Roman practice.

I will tell more about this topic in next few posts; I am in touch with Desai, the author of those FB-Posts, CONCERNED THAT HIS KNOWLEDGE / WRITING SHOULD NOT GO WASTE.

Thanks and regards,

 

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8 hours ago, Boydstun said:

I'm going to get this book Capitalism in America – A History.

Stephen,

I had like to thank you for a “not normal” gesture – I had negated some of your points and expected that as usual you would take it negatively, as ego-problem etc, which is quite normal on these forums – you gave a pleasant surprise friend!

There is an important point which could benefit you and / or others here if you take pro-active interest. As you know, India is a backward country, predominantly evil rules in various forms. People with Western thoughts are exceptions and some of them come into deep trouble. One such person is “our” Nitin Desai – we cannot feel for every person in trouble, BUT: in this case there is an important qualification about which I am making a bold statement – he has something which Ayn Rand and many other well-meaning, well-educated, erudite intellectuals don’t have, though of course he considers Ayn Rand to be a personal Goddess – he has solution to America’s problems, ability to stop the erosion, the slide to abyss – THIS BIG STATEMENT I WILL PROVE IN MY NEXT POST.

At the moment, just as reminder I will quote some of my own statements from our ongoing dialogue.

Quote         1. “Our” Nitin Desai has loads of ideas, and it will be a sort of moral sin if we don’t do anything at all to help him bring them out – it will mean we are not loyal to our own principles, that life is a mere pretense and time-pass for us without any serious commitment, unbecoming to our assumption of Objectivism.

2. I am in touch with Desai, the author of those FB-Posts, concerned that his knowledge / writing should not go waste.

UNQuote        

If you, or anybody here, participate in helping him promote his writing, I can arrange to make a contract that you too will gain from it – there will be publicity, there can be some money also – above all, there will be the satisfaction of being true to our philosophy, our own self, true to what we hold as good!

 

 

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I hope Mr. Desai is fairly young with likely much life before him. Do not try to make a living from political activism or political education of the public. It is not a feasible way of making a living, and in the end it leaves one in the embarrassing position of advocating capitalism and not making a profit by that advocacy work and asking for charity to continue.

You must do that sort of work as an extra to making a living. Making a living has to follow where (ultimately) there is consumer demand at a non-zero price. I have known many brilliant people who are thinkers and writers or who are artists such as playwrights, painters, or novelists who have had to find a job or make a business at something totally different in the marketplace, and then do what you can on the craft you love in the hours not at work. I was myself such a person in learning and writing philosophy. Now that I am retired from commercial work and have the good fortune of a pension and the good fortune of remaining horsepower in thinking ability, I can buy any book I want hot off the press and, full time, write philosophy for posting and sometimes for academic publications.

To repeat, do not try to make a living off of political philosophy or any high-intellect field. Do not expect anything you publish to turn a profit. Either you have a way of making a living on that in academia or not. If not, then don't do the run-around ploy and expect to make a living from it. I have seen nothing but failure after failure from responding to one's circumstance in that way. Make money, and do not incur debt. I found also useful to wake a few hours before needing to go to the job, and do your study and writing in the best part of the day for high horsepower mind work. Take pleasure in providing for your life. Don't give up your dream, just keep at it on the side. If you have finished your formal education, never ask your fellows for money. That is plain unbecoming in America, and does not fit the positive models in Rand's fiction. And now I mention that last point, I've noticed that the protagonists in Rand's fiction do not spend their lives on political advocacy. There are other exciting and important things to learn and advance. Love too the fact that people have found your production at a job in the stream of commerce in what consumers buy worth paying for. In America, at least, one can get a job and get good at it without first remaking the social system. I wouldn't be surprised but what that is also the case in India.

Talk of charities being investments in the future is routine sales talk by charities and by politicians. And it is junk. Charitable giving is just giving, and that is fine.

 

Edited by Boydstun
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14 hours ago, Boydstun said:

Now that I am retired from commercial work and have the good fortune of a pension and the good fortune of remaining horsepower in thinking ability, I can buy any book I want hot off the press and, full time, write philosophy for posting and sometimes for academic publications.

Stephen,

I think you have concluded wrongly from my previous response! Desai is not asking for money from people; he is not rich, but is able to carry on, and beyond that he is doing high level work as a follower of Ayn Rand – perhaps his is the highest level of such work. Obviously advocating capitalism in India is foolishness if the same is not working even in US – whatever India is, are just names for dishonest people to loot honest ones, and he knows that it is not going to change so very soon – at the moment India is heading for collapse, and in the long run the West too is headed there – Desai is well aware of whatever you have written above. INSTEAD, AS I SAID PREVIOUSLY, HE IS READY TO SHARE PROFITS WITH ANYBODY WHO HELPS HIM – and once he gets an intitial push, huge profits are possible! What he needs is public awareness about his writing, spreading among rational people that a man with very good ideas is fighting in a backward country, and: FOR OUR SAKE, for the sake of justice, rationality, for the sake of a good world we talk about or pretend to fight for, we need to uphold him – he needs a rational appreciation of his ideas / works because they are far above whatever is available in the market, but NOT as charity but as rational evaluation, and even to be honest to ourselves and to live upto the good within ourselves. If we don’t support him, at least do the best of whatever possible to us, then our lives are pretentious, phony!

If you have read his FB-Posts correctly, and not as mere cursory reading / time-pass, you will find that he has brought out many points which are not commonly discussed – America as continuation of Greek civilization / Roman Republic, republic turning into democracy for the third time, plato’s small description repeating for the third time AND THE PLAYERS PLAYING EXACTLY AS HE DESCRIBED, the development of a doles-vote-block and using it for self-promotion while achieving America’s destruction, Civilization turning full circlei.e. the way Christianity took over Roman Republic America too is poised to be taken over – discussion about these important points is not being seen in mainstream America and Desai has many, many more ideas / details about these points.

(One big point remains which I will bring out in my next OP, but will take a few days, needs thoughtful input – I have made bold statements about it in my previous post which I repeat here. Desai has something which Ayn Rand and many other well-meaning, well-educated, erudite intellectuals don’t have, though of course he considers Ayn Rand to be a personal Goddess – he has solution to America’s problems, ability to stop the erosion, the slide to abyss – THIS BIG STATEMENT I WILL PROVE IN MY NEXT POST.)

As far as other peoples’ role goes, I will use you, Stephen, as its best example – after meeting you here I saw you on Ayn Rand / FACEBOOK and Open group on Objectivism. + referring to your above quote:  Now that I am retired …...

Means you are a man of means and also active – to be frank, Objectivism is too very small a movement, means too less adherents in a democracy, and the men who carry AR’s books in tea-parties etc are also minorities – wait for my next post about them, will tell how far they can go. If you are true to the principles, the philosophy you profess, it is incumbent on you to do the utmost that Desai will get a hearing (you are just an example, other like-minded people should also do the same). He has the solution to America’s / civilization’s problem and it is the work of our type of people to help him BY SPREADING THE MESSAGE. We are not favoring him by doing so but living upto the best in ourselves, living upto the principles and the philosophy we claim to hold. That he is ready to share profits, HE WANTS TO DONATE IF THERE IS PROFIT, etc are side issues, main points are: he deserves support of people like us, he is far more beneficial to civilization than other people in the market, and that we have to be true to ourselves. (As said in my previous comment, I can even get a contract made about profit sharing.)

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