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Israeli Pullout Of Gaza

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I have several problems with the pullout:

1) Strategically, Israel loses ground. Rockets fired from southern Gaza at neighbouring Israeli towns will now be able to be fired from northern Gaza and hit major towns such as Ashkelon and Tel Aviv.

2) The Palestinians are not being asked to make any concessions, Israel is simply leaving. Terrorist groups will take this as another retreat - as they took Israel's withdrawal from southern Lebanon - and have even less incentive to seek peace.

3) Israel has stopped its policy of targetted assassinations and demolitions. Israel needs to show it is not giving up and running with its tail between its legs. They have to continue assassinating terrorist leaders and demolishing infostructure, just as they did when they abandoned the Sinai and returned it to Egypt.

4) Why the urgency? Yes, the occupation is costly, but the Palestinians have offered nothing in return, not even a "cease fire". Is Sharon using this to cover up for the mass corruption under his tenure?

On the other hand, there is no doubt that Israel's continual presence in Gaza is costly in lives and resources. Also, there is no alternative since annexing the Gaza strip and giving the Palestinians there citizenship rights would eliminate Israel's democratic government.

I also don't know how realistic this is, but Israel should consider creating two separate Palestinian states, one in Gaza and one in the West Bank.

Divide and rule, so to speak.

I was reading DEBKAfile’s and intelligence sources think that Iran will have the bomb i 4 months think pulling back from Gaza and one in the West Bank. is a saftly reason if Israel go in to Iran? "Ariel Sharon’s declaration Thursday, Dec. 1, that Israel would not be able to accept a nuclear-armed Iran.

and A more serious statement came from AMAN commander Brig. Aharon Zeevi Wednesday Nov. 30 in his briefing to the Knesset foreign affairs and security committee. He warned that if international pressure on Iran fails to bring forth results by March 2006, the world powers might as well give up, because by then it will be too late: Iran will have attained the capability to manufacture a nuclear bomb. The general was saying in so many words that, according to his information, Iran is no more than four months away from a nuclear weapons option."Some of the editors present at the lunch interpreted Sharon’s words as meaning he was planning a “Begin-style coup” - an assault on Iran’s nuclear installations ahead of Israel’s March 28 general election,and that DEBKAfile’s intelligence sources reveal that the data on Iran’s nuclear industry found in the computer included a set of instructions in Chinese on how to build miniature nuclear warheads that can be fitted onto surface missiles.

is this going to be the start or the big war of wars?

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I was reading DEBKA file’s, and intelligence sources think that Iran will have the bomb in 4 months think pulling back from Gaza and one in the West Bank. is a saftly reason if Israel go in to Iran? "Ariel Sharon’s declaration Thursday, Dec. 1, that Israel would not be able to accept a nuclear-armed Iran....

Is this going to be the start or the big war of wars?

Iran is run by true fanatics, IMHO. So is North Korea. If either gets the bomb the world situation will get very interesting very fast. I hope President Bush is on top of this. But he seems rather unintelligent and disengaged, so we could be in some real trouble here.

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I'm more concerned with Iran having the bomb. DPRK is said to already have it, but at least they have China next door to keep them in check. This doesn't make me feel very comfortable with the situation, obviously, but it does seem to make the situation less threatening in the short term. Iran seems to have dillusions of being a regional super power. Plus, DPRK is more about power, whereas Iran is about Islam -- I think this makes Iran the more likely of the two to use a nuke.

In any case, I don't think the Gaza pull out will effect what Israel chooses to do about Iraq. I'd like to see some daring commando action by Israel in the absence of US action, but I fear they might not have the capability. Iran is two countries away, and unless they go in through the Gulf, they would have to go through some combination of Turkish, Syrian, Jordanian, Saudi Arabian or US occupied Iraqi airspace -- and the US might not be cooperative.

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I'm more concerned with Iran having the bomb. DPRK is said to already have it, but at least they have China next door to keep them in check. This doesn't make me feel very comfortable with the situation, obviously, but it does seem to make the situation less threatening in the short term. Iran seems to have dillusions of being a regional super power. Plus, DPRK is more about power, whereas Iran is about Islam -- I think this makes Iran the more likely of the two to use a nuke.

North Korea really is a type of madhouse. I think they're capable of anything. They do things that no other horrid dictatorship in the history of the world has done--this includes communist Albania.

Still, I think you're right. The really sick thing is Iran might easily transfer its nukes to Al Queda before we even know they have them. How hard, really, would it be to sneak a bomb into New York, DC, LA or London? :)

In any case, I don't think the Gaza pull out will effect what Israel chooses to do about Iraq. I'd like to see some daring commando action by Israel in the absence of US action, but I fear they might not have the capability. Iran is two countries away, and unless they go in through the Gulf, they would have to go through some combination of Turkish, Syrian, Jordanian, Saudi Arabian or US occupied Iraqi airspace -- and the US might not be cooperative.

Bush seems rather amoral and "morally equivalent." I think he probably would hinder Israel. This is unfortunate because Israel's fight is our fight. And the PLO is little different from Al Queda. Both should be destroyed, if possible.

Unfortunately I think the Gaza surrender has made the Israelis soft in the head. They seem as appeasment-oriented as they've ever been in their whole history. Really ominous. Maybe someone will sneak a nuke into Tel Aviv too. :D

Edited by Felipe
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North Korea really is a type of madhouse. I think they're capable of anything. They do things that no other horrid dictatorship in the history of the world has done--this includes communist Albania.

Point taken. I found it very hard to take in some of the things that are alleged on the Web, a little harder than anything I've seen about the Holocaust.

I was originally hoping that Israel might be using this pull out thing as a way to cut off responsibilities of governance while intensifying strikes on terrorist activity. I am disappointed.

[...]Iran might easily transfer its nukes to Al Queda before we even know they have them. How hard, really, would it be to sneak a bomb into New York, DC, LA or London? :D

Bush seems rather amoral and "morally equivalent." I think he probably would hinder Israel. This is unfortunate because Israel's fight is our fight. And the PLO is little different from Al Queda. Both should be destroyed, if possible.

Unfortunately I think the Gaza surrender has made the Israelis soft in the head. They seem as appeasment-oriented as they've ever been in their whole history. Really ominous[..]

Well, at least we won't have to wait long to know if nuke smuggling is something to fear. :)

Edited by FeatherFall
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I'm more concerned with Iran having the bomb. DPRK is said to already have it, but at least they have China next door to keep them in check. This doesn't make me feel very comfortable with the situation, obviously, but it does seem to make the situation less threatening in the short term. Iran seems to have dillusions of being a regional super power. Plus, DPRK is more about power, whereas Iran is about Islam -- I think this makes Iran the more likely of the two to use a nuke.

In any case, I don't think the Gaza pull out will effect what Israel chooses to do about Iraq. I'd like to see some daring commando action by Israel in the absence of US action, but I fear they might not have the capability. Iran is two countries away, and unless they go in through the Gulf, they would have to go through some combination of Turkish, Syrian, Jordanian, Saudi Arabian or US occupied Iraqi airspace -- and the US might not be cooperative.

Russian president Vladimir Putin and Syrian president Bashar Assad, who arrived in Moscow Monday, January 24, will sign a $70 million deal for the sale of 20 SA-18 Igla-S batteries mounted on Armored Personnel Carriers. One of the most effective missiles against low-flying aircraft on the market, the SA-18 is manufactured at the Russian KBM factory near Moscow.

The sale culminates intense quiet exchanges conducted by the US Pentagon and State Department with the Kremlin and Russian defense ministry to prevent the sale to Damascus of the shoulder-launched version of the SA-18 for fear it falling into the hands of Iraqi guerrillas and Hizballah terrorists.

Washington accepted the APC-mounted compromise despite Israel’s complaints. Although 20 batteries do not present a major headache for the Israeli air force, their mobility makes them difficult to target and limits the maneuverability of Israeli planes in Syrian airspace as a deterrent to Damascus war or terror initiatives. The Igla-S is also effective against small targets like reconnaissance drones, helicopters and cruise missiles. Missile experts report that when fired against fighter craft an Igla-S has the effectiveness of two missiles fired in a single round – or five missiles when launched against a cruise missile.

This is Syria’s second important arms purchase in recent months. DEBKAfile’s military sources were first report its acquisition in East Europe of Kornet AT-14 anti-tank missiles. This purchase provoked a warning from Washington that if this weapon should turn up in Iraq or Lebanon, America will be free to take military action.

DEBKAfile’s military sources now reveal that the Syrian missile sale is integral to the Kremlin’s new, broad strategic initiative that encompasses secret military assistance to Tehran as well as its overt deals with Damascus. Moscow’s objective is partly to secure its investment in Iran’s nuclear center at Bushehr on the Persian Gulf against the fate of the Saddam Hussein’s French-built Tamuz nuclear center which the Israeli air force bombed out existence 24 years ago.

In the second week of January, Russian defense minister Sergey Ivanov spent five days in Washington setting up the February 24 summit meeting between Presidents George W. Bush and Vladimir Putin in the Slovak capital of Bratislava.

That same week, DEBKA-Net-Weekly 189 revealed that Russian experts from the Raduga OKB engineering group in Dubna near Moscow had just completed the installation of two advanced radar systems around the Bushehr nuclear reactor on the Persian Gulf.

These improved mobile 36D6 systems, Western codenamed Tin Shield, were custom-made to upgrade the air defense radar protecting Iran’s key nuclear facilities from American or Israeli aerial, missile or cruise missile attack.

If that was all, it might have passed without too great a hullabaloo.

However, the fat hit the fire when the Russians were discovered to be building the same system at Iran’s uranium enrichment plants for military purposes in Isfahan in central Iran. It was taken to mean that Moscow has undertaken to secure all of Iran’s nuclear industry from top to bottom – from the installation of sophisticated equipment to military planning and operational cooperation - against American or Israeli attack. Moscow has thus placed a serious impediment in the path of any American and Israel military action to curb Iran’s nuclear armament. This Russian-Iranian cooperation looks like the harbinger of geo-strategic understandings in other places like Afghanistan, India, Iraq and the Persian Gulf.

Already, the Russian military umbrella over Iran is emitting diplomatic signals.

And that is not all.

On January 12, the day Russian radar was finally installed at Bushehr and Isfahan, the Kremlin leaked word of a large-scale arms deal afoot with Syria for the delivery of advanced SS-26 road-mobile Iskander-E surface missiles - successor to the Scud, whose 480-kilo multiple warhead can dodge air defense radar systems and electronic jamming - as well as surface-to-air SA-10 (“Grumble”) and SA-18 (“Grouse”) shoulder-launched missiles.

The first can engage several targets at varying altitudes simultaneously including raiding aircraft and cruise or tactical missiles. The SA-18 is an improved version of the Strela with a 2-kilo high-explosive warhead fitted with a contact and grazing fuse, aerodynamic improvements, extended effective range and greater speed. The SA-18 has a maximum range of 5.2 km and maximum altitude of 3.5 km.

Sale of this missile package was not expected to go through in its entirety - certainly not the Iskander. The shoulder-launched version of the SA-18 was deemed too flagrant a provocation for Washington to tolerate in view of its applications for Iraqi insurgents and Hizballah terrorists. The leak was therefore intended as a partial red herring to camouflage Moscow’s real plans.

What really worries Washington and Jerusalem is the possibility of Assad and Putin putting their heads together on the same 36D6 radar system Moscow has supplied Iran.

Our military sources describe the Tin Shield 36D6 as a mobile radar system designed to detect air targets and perform friend-or-foe identification. It is highly effective in detecting low, medium and high altitude targets moving at almost any speed, including winged missiles and American or Israeli cruise missiles. It is capable of providing the target and bearing of active jamming, as well as integrated computer-aided systems of control and guidance of anti-aircraft missile complexes.

Tin Shield can operate independently as an observation and air detection post, as part of computer-aided control systems or as an element in an anti-air guided missile complex, where it carries out reconnaissance and targeting.

If Syria gets this sophisticated system, a Russian-coordinated Iranian-Syrian-Lebanese radar barrier will rise with three serious consequences that go beyond the balance of strength in the Middle East:

1. The 36D6 radar system deployment, if acquired by Syria as well Iran, will confine US aerial operations in Iraq to a narrow corridor hemmed in by sophisticated Russian radar and reconnaissance systems.

2. Its deployment at nuclear sites in northern Iran near the Afghan border will obstruct any American air operation mounted from the north against Iran from Afghan bases, while the Russian radar system’s presence in Syria will hinder an American or Israeli strike against Iran from the west.

3. Moscow’s military backing for Iran and Syria is tantamount to sympathy for their diplomatic postures and extends to their sponsorship of Hizballah and Palestinian terrorist organizations. First overt indications of Moscow’s new direction surfaced in an official Russian foreign ministry denunciation last week, the first since the 1990s, of the American threat of new sanctions against Syria for sponsoring “freedom fighters” – Syria’s term for Palestinian terrorist organizations like Hamas and the Jihad Islami.

How far the Kremlin intends to take its new policy thrust in the Middle East will become clearer after the Assad-Putin talks in Moscow this week and the Putin-Bush Bratislava summit in a month.

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because there is no innocents in your enemy

Is this a point of difference between Peikoff and Rand? I do not believe that Rand would have thought this. I don't see how such a statement can possibly be rationally defended. I agree that, when fighting a war, the presence of innocents should not be a concern, but that doesn't mean that there are no innocents.

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That's just another form of defeatism. You might as well say there have always existed Redcoats, Southern Rebels, Nazis, and Commies.

Where there is a will, there is a way!

USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!

Difference being that those were all definable groups.

Redcoats=British military

Southern Rebels=Confederate army

Nazis=German political party

Commies=adherents to the Communist ideology

I'd like to point out that Nazis and Commies still exist. Even so, they are both much more easily defined than terrorists. Terrorists include radical Muslims, Irish separatists, anti-abortionists, environmental extremists, etc. If you want to get into history, we have the Barbary pirates, the Thuggee, the Daggermen, etc.

"Terrorist" can describe anyone from a Nazi to a Muslim to an animal rights wacko. It is certainly possible to fight Islamic terrorism to the point that it is basically rendered non-threatening, but terrorism, as such, cannot be eradicated. The reason it cannot be eradicated is because terrorism is a tactic, not a group. Saying that you can eradicate terrorism is like saying you can eradicate crime...both will always exist.

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