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Is Egypt An Ally?

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Just wondering some of your opinions. I don't know much about the political atmosphere of Egypt, but from what I can tell, they seem like the best ally we have in the Middle East. Although, Saudi Arabia also "looks" that way, so I remain somewhat skeptical.

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Just wondering some of your opinions.  I don't know much about the political atmosphere of Egypt, but from what I can tell, they seem like the best ally we have in the Middle East.  Although, Saudi Arabia also "looks" that way, so I remain somewhat skeptical.

I'm not sure ally is the right word. The way I understand it is that proto-Al Quaeda had to leave Egypt after the assassination of Anwar Sadat. The government takes grand steps against fundamentalism. Egypt behaves.

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Well, to me, an ally in the Middle East is a country who does not do anything to hinder our efforts. They may not help us like Britain or Italy, but is it safe to say that they're the friendliest Arab nation?

They have made great efforts in hunting down those involved in the Sharm El Sheikh bombings...although, that was an attack on Egyptian soil, so I guess that is to be expected. There are still some crazies over there though...for instance, some government official blamed the Sharm El Sheikh bombings on Mossad. That isn't the official position of the Egyptian government, and it has pretty much become generally excepted that a group called Mujahideen Egypt was behind the attack.

Edited by Moose
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Well, to me, an ally in the Middle East is a country who does not do anything to hinder our efforts. 
By that definition, then they definately qalify as one of our better allies. They at least haven't blown up any of our ships, taken over one of our embassy's, or had any major spy rings against us as far as I can remember. Sure Israel does fall under that definition since they did attack one of our ships and spy on us but that is another story....
They may not help us like Britain or Italy, but is it safe to say that they're the friendliest Arab nation?
Very true. Turkey has been friendly in the past and a definate ally in the past but after the last invasion of Iraq they definately go in the mediocre friend column. But given their internal pressures it may have been a reaction against internal forces more than a genuine anti-US/allie reaction.
They have made great efforts in hunting down those involved in the Sharm El Sheikh bombings...although, that was an attack on Egyptian soil, so I guess that is to be expected.  There are still some crazies over there though...for instance, some government official blamed the Sharm El Sheikh bombings on Mossad.
We've got plenty of those on staff in major US media and political outlets. So I'll cut them some slack there.
That isn't the official position of the Egyptian government, and it has pretty much become generally excepted that a group called Mujahideen Egypt was behind the attack.

The Egyptians are the only ones in the region who are smart enough to realize that being maybe not an ally but at least at peace with Israel is a very good thing. It opens many doors in addition to being the right thing to do. The Egyptians and Israeli's are really the only diverse economies in the region and have a steady flow of income. Everyone else has a one trick pony economy for the most part. Plus it's a comparatively secular society that is, and I hate using the word yet again, comparitevly democratic government. Plus, you can't rule out the literacy rate as being a big factor. The people of so many of the Islamo-fascist countries are almost totally illiterate so it's really no wonder they still listen to their mullahs like some dark ages priest speaking the literal word of god.

So given the smack down they received from Israel militarily, the secular government, the secular society, the diversified economy, and the open flow of knowledge it seems to reason that they'd be more likely to ally themselves to us.

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Egypt's economy may be more diverse than other Arab countries, but it is still struggling, and the Sharm El Sheikh attacks are going to wreak havoc on the tourism industry. But I agree that Egypt seemed to learn its lesson about belligerence. Being the only Arab nation to agree to peace, it was rewarded with the Sinai. Although, I am of the opinion that refraining of violence should not be rewarded...rather, violence should be punished. Nonetheless, Egypt is a better country for it.

Just wondering, when did Israel attack a U.S. ship?

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Just wondering, when did Israel attack a U.S. ship?

I agree with you about Sinai.

Israel attacked the us ship USS Liberty of the coast of Israel in 1967 during the 6 day war. 34 Sailors died and they always argued it was an accident that they repeatedly strafed the US flagged ship which was admittedly spying on them. The Israeli's said they never saw the US flag or noticed the US naval markings. Nor did they notice the sailors on the deck madly waving the US flag at them as they made their runs hoping they wouldn't attack.

It turns out that the NSA was spying on both the sides of the 6 Day War and the CIA and recorded the Israeli pilots mentioning they knew it was an American ship. In my opinion, the Israeli's orderd the pilots to keep us from spying on their actions against civilians but got carried away and people ended up dying. Just like when Iraq killed the men on the Stark. They were trying to make a diplomatic point and people ended up dying. Sabre rattling that went to far.

edit to parse quote

Edited by scottkursk
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Eqypt isn't our ally. Nor is Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. Bush is lying and betraying us. These 3 are radical islamic and socialist dictatorships. Everyone inside them hates their leaders and these tyrants, in turn, divert revolt by stirring up HUGE anti-Americanism.

Thus America should declare itself any ENEMY of these 3 governments :nuke: while expressing solidarity with and support for the semi-innocent citizens of these 3 evil states. We should champion the people (at least to the extent that they want freedom) while excoriating and morally condemning the dictatorial leaders.

The US should only deal with these evil anti-American tyrants on an ad hoc basis and we should advertise loudly that we will BETRAY them the instant a decent pro-freedom movement emerges to overthrow and kill them. Ironically, this stance would make those peoples and governments much less anti-American and much more true, honest allies. :thumbsup:

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How is Egypt radical Islamist?

How isn't it? Only maybe Turkey, parts of Lebanon, and Kurdistan are "moderate" of the Islamic states. Eqypt is home to the father of the jihadi groups: The Muslim Brotherhood--as well as many other major radical Islamic scholars and organizations. Jews and Christians walk the streets at their peril.
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We're talking about the government of Egypt. The Muslim Brotherhood has been outlawed in Egypt. No country can fully control the actions of its citizens. You say "Jews and Christians walk the streets at their peril." Can you give an example of this?

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How isn't it? Only maybe Turkey, parts of Lebanon, and Kurdistan are "moderate" of the Islamic states. Eqypt is home to the father of the jihadi groups: The Muslim Brotherhood--as well as many other major radical Islamic scholars and organizations. Jews and Christians walk the streets at their peril.

I work with numerous people who emigrated from Pakistan. They come from both Shia and Suni branches of Islam and one of the reasons they cited for leaving is that it wasn't safe for either to walk the streets of Islamabad. Just like living in Bogata. Actually, I'd be willing to bet you're more likely to be kidnapped in Bogata than Cairo. And Columbia is about as totally died in the wool Catholic Christian loving nation as you can get. Not many moslems there. In fact, I'd bet they are quite non-Christian unfriendly.

In fact, Columbia's back or even parts of Mexico (speaking from personal experience) are more dangerous for an American than Egypt. The FARC and Tupac Amaru was founded in Columbia and Mexico is the home of Comandante Zero, so should we issue them the ultimatum as well while we are at it? I'm not trying to be a smart alec here if it sounds like I'm getting a tone, which I'm not.

Edited by scottkursk
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  • 2 months later...
You say "Jews and Christians walk the streets at their peril." Can you give an example of this?

Here's a recent one, in Egypt, in the past month:

Islam Insulted in Egypt: One Stabbed, Three Killed

by Robert Spencer

Posted Oct 27, 2005

The Muslim Brotherhood has threatened to kill the Coptic Pope Shenouda III. A nun was stabbed by a Muslim who burst into a Coptic church shouting “Allah akbar.” Three people were killed as thousands of Muslim protestors rioted outside a Coptic church in Alexandria, Egypt. Relations between Muslims and Christians in Egypt have not been this tense in recent memory.

By all accounts, it’s all because of a DVD that was shown in a Coptic church which Muslims think insults Islam. How exactly does it insult Islam? According to CNN, “The riot was sparked by the distribution of a DVD of a play that was performed at the church two years ago. The play, ‘I Was Blind But Now I Can See,’ tells the story of a young Christian who converts to Islam and becomes disillusioned.”

Continued

The feeling I get is that the average "Egyptian on the street" would like to see more suppression of Xtians and Jews that their gov't. is currently engaging in, and though that I admit I have no empirical evidence to back this feeling up, I'm thinking should Egypt have some truly free elections the lives of Xtians and Jews would become considerably worse. But, to the Egyptian Gov't's. credit, they did dispatch police to protect the churches in this incident. Still, it is a video that only sought to return an Xtian to his faith. Doubtless the Coptic Nun stabbed also had it coming.

Edit to add: I was kind of curious to see if I could find any similar treatment of Jews in the recent past. I couldn't, for the simple reason that there aren't any Jews left in Egypt to speak of. According to this link there

are only 100 left in the whole country of 75 million. There were largely tossed out of Egypt following the conflicts of 1956 and 1967, though perhaps some of those left voluntarily.

Edited by The Owl
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Here's a recent one, in Egypt, in the past month:

The feeling I get is that the average "Egyptian on the street" would like to see more suppression of Xtians and Jews that their gov't. is currently engaging in, and though that I admit I have no empirical evidence to back this feeling up, I'm thinking should Egypt have some truly free elections the lives of Xtians and Jews would become considerably worse. But, to the Egyptian Gov't's. credit, they did dispatch police to protect the churches in this incident. Still, it is a video that only sought to return an Xtian to his faith. Doubtless the Coptic Nun stabbed also had it coming.

I'm not trying to be a smart alec here but have you ever been to the Bible belt? When I was a kid we received bibles when we graduated 5th grade from the school district. The one Jewish kid in school, and I mean the only one, was told to basically suck it up and find Christ. It continued thorughout high school. People would give him and the kids they knew to be Catholic bibles every holiday along with tracts all the time because they were part of a Satanic conspiracy. It wasn't until at least 30% of my school district was Hispanic that we started serving fish on Fridays becuase the school district didn't want to accomadate non-Protestants. Yes, I did see a burning cross one time and the only guy that was an avowed Atheist recieved death threats until we graduated. I had to hide my beliefs and was in fact the guy that gave the prayers daily over the public scool P.A. at football games.

Just today there was a protest at the funeral of a dead soldier saying that God lets them die because gay people are tolerated here. Being from the South, history constantly reminds us of what happened to Jews especially and black people that made the mistake of trying to vote in the South.

So when it comes to tolerance, Egypt is less tolerant than us but compared to the majority of countries in the region, they are far ahead of the competition. No Jews live in Egypt but then there is a country in the region that doesn't allow non-Jews to become full citizens. Can you guess who that is?

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  • 1 month later...

Why do some people seem to blame the Egyptian government for the actions of the Muslim Brotherhood? The MB is just a political party. That would be like blaming the US government for the actions of the Revolutionary Communist Party.

The Muslim Brotherhood did just win an unprecedented number of seats (20%, if I'm not mistaken), but that isn't the fault of the government. I think that Egypt is going down a very dark path, but it isn't beyond saving itself yet. I really hope it saves itself...I want to see the pyramids while it's still safe enough to visit the Middle East. :confused:

Edited by Moose
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