An apparent contradiciton in an Ayn Rand quote?

[Regis]

http://www.rationalmind.net/david/editquote (quote 51)

It makes no difference whether government controls allegedly favor the interests of labor or business, of the poor or the rich, of a special class or a special race: the results are the same. The notion that a dictatorship can benefit any one social group at the expense of others is a worn remnant of the Marxist mythology of class warfare, refuted by half a century of factual evidence. All men are victims and losers under a dictatorship; nobody wins-except the ruling clique.-Ayn Rand

Look at it closely. All men are victims and losers under a dictatorship, yet the ruling clique (made up of men, presumably), are winners? Just pointing it out, since I had someone jump on my case for using that quote. I had to tell him, Ok, delete the words nobody wins and the semicolon. Now your contradiction is gone and the meaning remains.

-Regis

[hunterrose]

the ruling clique (made up of men, presumably), are [are] winners?

Short term, perhaps - depending on your definition of "winner."

Long term, no

[DPW]

Now your contradiction is gone and the meaning remains.

No it doesn't, since Ayn Rand knew full well what you may not: the "ruling clique" is necessarily a temporary gang, whose rule always ends in (its own) bloodshed. As hunterrose indicated, the ruling clique "wins" only in the sense that the last lemming over the cliff wins: he dies last...but he still dies.

[DavidOdden]

As hunterrose indicated, the ruling clique "wins" only in the sense that the last lemming over the cliff wins: he dies last...but he still dies.

On a tangent, this smear against lemmings is unjust and untrue, though funny. Life in Norway may be a bit rougher than in California, but it's definitely nothing to kill yourself over.

[softwareNerd]

All men are victims and losers under a dictatorship; nobody wins-except the ruling clique.

I think the meaning is pretty clear, even if one has nothing but this single sentence to go on. It means: every ruling clique tells one group that they are going to work on their behalf and that some other group (supposedly responsible for the mess) will be the only ones who will lose. Finally, neither group wins. I do not think the quote itself implies that the ruling-clique lose in the end.

It is clear that "all men" is used in a sense that excludes the ruling clique. If one understands the meaning, and finds there is no contradiction in that, how can one claim a contradiction exists in the phrasing of "all men"?

[Capitalism Forever]

The "except" clause applies to the whole sentence, beginning with "All men."

It's not

(All men are victims and losers under a dictatorship); (nobody wins-except the ruling clique)

but

(All men are victims and losers under a dictatorship; nobody wins)-except the ruling clique

Perhaps a questionable construction gramatically, but the meaning is clear and uncontradictory for those who seek to understand it, rather than to find fault with it.

[Pancho Villa]

On a tangent, this smear against lemmings is unjust and untrue, though funny. Life in Norway may be a bit rougher than in California, but it's definitely nothing to kill yourself over.

Oh really?

[dougclayton]

Perhaps a questionable construction gramatically, but the meaning is clear and uncontradictory for those who seek to understand it, rather than to find fault with it.

Well put.

[The Owl]

Oh really?

I don't think David Odden was talking about Norway, but about lemmings.

Lemming suicide as urban legend

[DavidOdden]

I don't think David Odden was talking about Norway, but about lemmings.

I actually was talking about Norway. It's a vile yet humorous Disney canard that lemmings commit suicide: Norwegian human suicide is somewhat exaggerated. This map shows that Norwegian suicide is comparable to that of the US or UK, and well below ex-Soviet outposts like Lithuania which is the leader in self-destruction.