What kind of music do you enjoy?

[stephen_speicher]

I did not mean to write such a mean-spirited post earlier about modern music....

I think your post of explanation was quite admirable, even if not precisely worded. You seem intelligent, sincere, and spirited, and hopefully more years of growing up with Objectivism will sharpen your intellectual edges.

[stephen_speicher]

Sometimes I enjoy hearing "A New World" or Midori playing Paganini's "24 Caprices" and other times Stevie Ray's rendition of "Little Wing" moves me.  Stevie Ray Vaughan may not have able to write a symphony, but then I doubt Dvorak could work a fretboard like lightning either.

That gave me a good chuckle. Thanks!

[AspiringObjectivist]

I'm a huge fan of Ben Folds and The Decemberists.

[janie]

I'm a huge fan of Ben Folds and The Decemberists.

I am not a huge Ben Folds fan, but I can't get enough of the Decemberists! Colin Meloy is an amazing song writer, and the music is fantastic, I just adore a good accordian jam in the middle of a pop record. Colin Meloy also gives excellent interviews, and is just as fun to read as he is to listen to.

[argive99]

I think the only reason my generation listens to modern music is that they are afraid their peers will think they are "uncool" for listening to anything else.  For example, if I were in the mall and a pretty girl came up to me and asked me what I was listening to on my headphones, she would probably make an excuse to run away and flirt with some jock the moment I answered her.  But that's okay with me because I do not care about the opinions of conformists and do not respect anyone who does because they are cowards.

You are more right about this than you know. Unless you are lucky or persistent enough to find an ideal woman, don't ever share your true musical tastes with a girl you are interested in. You will die a virgin or at least incredibly frustrated. Learn some stupid modern titles to throw at them if they ask what you like.

Save Rachmoninoff for those most private moments when you are alone and can refuel your soul.

[argive99]

I did not mean to write such a mean-spirited post earlier about modern music.  Some modern music has good qualities--just not AS good as the music I like.

The chip on my shoulder towards popular culture stems from my experiences with the rest of my age group, whom I consider for the most part to be completely depraved creatures who have a high probability of destroying the world once they become the adults in society.  For example, I would sit alone and read during lunch in high school while the other students threw things at me because I was the smart kid.  Everything about them, especially the godawful music they enjoyed, drove me into a fury that I have tried hard to put behind me but might not fully recover from for a long time.  Classical music has been instrumental (pardon the pun) in helping me get past the rage I felt towards the world and experience more positive emotions instead.  I can't help thinking that if everyone listened to what I listened to instead of this modern stuff that is a horrible, mind-crushing influence on adolescents, the world would be that much more peaceful.  Imagine the consequences when an entire generation of Britney Spears clone girls and Justin Timberlake clone boys grows up to take the reigns of society.  Human beings do not live by means of trendy dance moves and fashionable clothes, they live by means of intelligence.  The mainstream does not encourage intelligence, it encourages conformity, and because of that it is not only bad art but a threat to human life.

This is interesting. You are obviously still a kid. And yet, I remember thinking like you when I first read Ayn Rand. And while I have "softened" in my condemnation of my "peers", I still respect this attitude. Many here will try to disuade you from your bitterness, and in fact, getting older will change your view somewhat. But my advice is don't completely abandon this resentment against your peers because they are not completely innocent and they do deserve some level of censure.

Also, take a look at these people at the age of 20 (I'm guessing your age group) and then look at them at 30 (mine) and look at them at 40 (my cousins). You will see the self corruption of a person's soul in living color, drawn out in time right before your very eyes.

So do enjoy some of modern music. Its not all bad. For example, I used to hate Madonna and considered her the symbol of the mindless female. And even though, IMO, she is that, I came to realize that her music does have a purpose. Chicks love to have sex to it. Why fight it?

But keep that flame of anger in your soul. It will ensure that though you will grow up you will never give up; give up what matters most.

I have a feeling I'm going to catch hell for this.

[AshRyan]

...I think the only reason my generation listens to modern music is that they are afraid their peers will think they are "uncool" for listening to anything else...

Let me just assure you that what modern music I listen to is not because I care what my peers think about my taste in music.

Also, not all modern music is bad. Try to broaden your horizons a bit. Check out, for example, Bela Fleck & The Flecktones. Bela is hailed as the world's premier banjoist. Victor Wooten, the bassist, is also amazing and has been named bassist of the year several times by the bass-playing community. I saw them play with the Utah Symphony last weekend, and they were magnificent (even if the audience wasn't). And afterwards, all of them came back on stage to sign autographs, and chat and have pictures taken with the fans. Jeff Coffin (the amazing winds player, who played two saxes at once during a couple of songs) took a picture of Future Man (the percussionist) with several fans including myself at Future Man's request, then got my email address and sent me the picture later. How many bands would do that? Very cool people, and even better musicians.

[AshRyan]

I enjoy listening to Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds very much. I think he has one of the best voices ever. i listen to david bowie and the beatles and the cure and radiohead and joy division and jeff buckley. and some hardcore bands like converge and burnt by the sun.wide variety of music.  i'm willing to listen to new things. any suggestion?

Based on the bands you've listed here, I can pretty much guarantee that you would like Ours, led by singer/songwriter Jimmy Gnecco. Check them out, I promise you will not be disappointed. Start with Distorted Lullabies, it's one of my favorite albums of all time. Gnecco is an even better singer than Jeff Buckley, IMO.

[AshRyan]

I'm a huge fan of Ben Folds and The Decemberists.

If you like piano pop like Ben Folds, check out Fluid Ounces. I think Seth Timbs (Fl. Oz. front-man) is an even better singer/songwriter/pianist than Ben Folds. You may have to look around a bit for their albums, as they're pretty much all out of print now, but you can download a few free sample songs at their official website, http://www.fluidounces.org.

[AspiringObjectivist]

If you like piano pop like Ben Folds, check out Fluid Ounces.  I think Seth Timbs (Fl. Oz. front-man) is an even better singer/songwriter/pianist than Ben Folds.  You may have to look around a bit for their albums, as they're pretty much all out of print now, but you can download a few free sample songs at their official website, http://www.fluidounces.org.

Thanks. I'm a big piano-pop fan, I'll check them out.

[AspiringObjectivist]

I am not a huge Ben Folds fan, but I can't get enough of the Decemberists!  Colin Meloy is an amazing song writer, and the music is fantastic, I just adore a good accordian jam in the middle of a pop record.  Colin Meloy also gives excellent interviews, and is just as fun to read as he is to listen to.

Have you heard "The Tain"?

It was insanely good, live.

[Concerto of Atlantis]

If you like Ben Folds, you might really like Ed Harcourt. Check him out.

[R Press]

                                                

And some hardcore bands like converge and burnt by the sun.wide variety of music.  i'm willing to listen to new things. any suggestion?

Have you heard Miss Machine? I find it the best out of all Dillinger Escape Plan albums I've heard.

[pvtmorriscsa]

Howdy all,

I like all sorts of music. I sort of follow the idea that if I like a song, I like it. Regardless of what type of music it is, or the popularity of the band.

Having said that, after discovering Objectivisim, I began to evaluate why I like the music I like. I found myself no longer listening to many songs. I began to really listen to the lyrics of songs, and found that many of them had a looter/collectivist/defeatist leaning to them. Those that did I quit listening too.

This editing of my own "playlist", is stictly done on a song by song basis. Most bands have songs that I like, and songs that I dislike. (Although I must say that I have yet to find a Beatles song that I do not like, but that is more sentimentality than anything else. )

One band that has a lot of what I consider good songs, and as such I have been listening to them a lot recently is the Dropkick Murphys.

I enjoy good, loud punk music, and I also enjoy traditonal Celtic music. The Dropkick's are a little of both, and have a lot of enjoyable songs. When I listen to them it makes me want to slam-dance a jig!

[AspiringObjectivist]

"Walk Away" by the Dropkick Murphy's is really fun.

[eyeless]

A long time ago in this thread (just started reading it):

The idea is to identify as clearly as possible the idealogical source, implicit or explicit, in your automatic response, and it is only by a constant process of re-evaluation that such automatic responses will eventually give way to responses tied to your new ideas. And, in the meantime, and this "meantime" could be many years for some, do not be afraid to let your feelings be expressed. It is not shameful if a work of art, which may have some malevolent-world aspect to it, touches a part of your soul. Like all human beings, you need to experience your own sense of life in the form which only art can provide, and you should never be apologetic to yourself or others for that.

In the long run, if you continue to choose to function on the right premises, and if you work at identifying and re-evaluating your emotional responses, you will arrive wholly and fully in that very same Atlantis which you loved and admired so much.

A malevolence sense-of-life is no good. But, there is much in the world today that makes it easy to have a malevolent outlook now and then. Ideally the bad things in life and this world will likely diminish in stature to you as you grow in your understanding of Objectivism, yourself and the world, but now and then things happen that temporarily will make you somewhat malevolent in mind and then you might find that more malevolent music is better suited to fullfil your temporary artistic needs.

I think it is very dangerous to suggest that one day you should not want to listen to this or that -- that is just precisely what is creating the response by certain newcomers to Objectivism that Stephen himself laments (that some think listening to this or that is shameful).

It is also sometimes VERY difficult to identify what "idealogical" response a certain music will provoke. You should try as Stephen says, but never listen to anybody elses opinion on the specific matter, please (or not too much anyway)!

If Objectivists cannot agree on the theme and value of films (which are much more explicit), then certainly they are not to agree on whether Beethoven or Liszt are basically having a good sense-of-life or not (not to deny that such agreement is possible in specific cases and even in general).

Jerry

[jedymastyr]

I really enjoy listening to Alanis Morissette. Baba is my favorite song, and I love the variety of the sounds on SFIJ (her second American CD). I find she has several songs that suit any mood I may be in, from the very happy/loving (Head Over Feet, Knees of My Bees) to some of the angry music she got popular for. I find her to be very passionate, good at expressing herself, honest, and open. I also like Tori Amos, though not quite as much, for similar reasons. I also love the sound of both of their voices...I can have it on as background music while doing homework, or be consciously listening to the lyrics on a long drive, and either way I am able to find value. Either way, I find myself happier while/after being around the music.

I find it strange, though, that I like being around almost any type of music. I don't care much for rap or loud music with words that can hardly be heard, but almost anything else is pleasant (soft rock, classical, jazz, etc.). However, I enjoy the above music very much, and as a result have not spent a great deal of time exploring these to find ones I really like.

[eyeless]

[...] artistic needs.

I meant to say "need of art" (I am not sure which way would be the shortest and best way to say it in english, but just to clear up a possible misunderstanding).

Jerry

[AspiringObjectivist]

I meant to say "need of art" (I am not sure which way would be the shortest and best way to say it in english, but just to clear up a possible misunderstanding).

Jerry

Perhaps you could say "necessity of art in your life"?

Addendum: I also like "Death Cab For Cutie".

[walsh]

I like a few hardcore (metalcore and the more straight-up variety) as well as the norm of classical music.

But I'd kind of like to explain a pro-hardcore stance.

I first listened to hardcore music when I hadn't discovered Objectivism, and I really didn't like it. Then, as I learned more, I found there were things to respect.

Now, I'm not advocating that the lyrics are good. They range from depressing to downright violent. I've read the Romantic Manifesto, and there was some discussion on the fact that music may not be likeable, but still good (provided the message is consistent, etc.).

Here's what I respect: the screaming. It takes an absurd amount of work to learn a palatable scream, and even then you are only allowed to have it for a couple of years, assuming that you take care of your throat and vocal cords. It took me six months to learn even a modestly good sounding scream. And a few vocalists (if you'd call them that) even are able to scream while they're inhaling. I can't imagine the amount of practice that takes.

There's also the fact that with the screams obscuring to destroying the lyrics, it's not quite as necessary to know/perceive the lyrics. You could look at hardcore like classical music, if you can, you know, get past or accept the idea that they're screaming.

I used to be a musician, but I just don't have time for it as well as school. I had always envisioned a band with screaming that didn't have terrible lyrics.

To sum it, I find some hardcore to be technically good. I also think the genre has an amazing amount of potential, as some of the post-hardcore bands have been finding out as they gain some mainstream acceptance (silverstein, hawthorne heights, etc.) with sung and screamed lyrics.

If anyone is interested in a couple of songs, what follows is a small sampler.

Shai Hulud- Two and Twenty Misfortunes

Silverstein- Giving Up

American Nightmare- Amo Te

Atreyu- Right Side of the Bed

(Disclaimer: I am not advocating that hardcore is consistant with Objectivism. It may be that I simply haven't examined my sense of life for as long as it may take. But, the sense of life right now definitely likes them. If this gets decryed as rationalism, I can handle that.)

[Erez Tal]

Before I get to recomendations I have some general comments about music taste. I'm a mainly classical musician so this is every day bread for my thoughts.

Lyrics are an important part of any song. Good lyrics can make a great song fantastic. When listening to a foreign language opera, for example, one can enjoy the pure music but when you know the plot and can understand what the music is based on, the enjoyment level is much higher.

As for modern songs, I tend to ignore lyrics when they are bad to just enjoy the music. If they are good then it helps, if they are bad and the music is good, I still like listening to it.

Music taste can change by several factors:

- Mood: A good piece will stay a good piece, but on different times listening to different pieces can be more apealing.

- Not everything can be grasped in the first listening. I find that, especialy in more complex classical pieces, the more you listen to it, the more you get to like it(if it's good). Any piece by Brahms is a perfect example. All of his 4 symphonies have complex rythms in them that are hard to grasp in the first time. But after I learned each one it became one of my favorites.

An even bigger factor for me is when I learn or sing a piece. The first time I heard Mozart's Requiem, I didnt get much of an impression from it. (That was before I got heavily into classical music.) After singing it I now consider it my favorite piece. My highlights from it would be the very begining (the first bars are divine), the kyrie, and offertorium (the entrance of "quam olim abrahe" gives me positive chills).

For these reasons I try to stay "open minded" about pieces that I hear for the first time and are not bad but just not very exciting either.

I don't see how objectivism can change a taste in music, unless someone had a different sense of life, or just didnt have his own taste before. My musical taste keeps expanding with time, but I can't say it was changed because of any philosophical premises, I just understand it (a little) better now.

I like many types of music (there is good and bad in almost every style).

I grew up mostly on several Israeli artists. They are not known in other countries (they mostly sing in hebrew) but they have the most wonderful songs. Three top names are

- Yoni Rechter, Shlomo Gronich and Matti Caspi. Their styles are a good mix of light rock, classical and jazz. The names probably don't say much but I just had to start with them.

Nirvana and the doors used to be my favorite bands in high school, but I dont listen to them much anymore. I still Like The Beatles, and am allways ready to listen to them. Their Style changed alot during the years they were active, but the genious stayed.

One band that I didn't see mentioned here and has the most uplifting songs i know is Queen. "A day at the Races" and "A night at the opera" are my favorite albums of theirs. They have an amazing power in all their music (especialy the songs written by Mercury) - "Dont stop me now", "Fat bottomed Girls", "somebody to love"... Freddie Mercury had an amazing voice and he knew how to use it.

Lately one of my favorite music era is the late 70's. (When Disco matured to orchestras!) There are quite alot of songs that use full orchestras along with the great rythm sections and i love that sound.

A favorite song of mine is Barry Mannilows "Copa Cabana" in the original version (from 1978, which is a single gem among other less interesting songs of his.) The orchestra, the backup singers, the bass with it's occasional twists, the percussion, it's all just perfect. There are several remixes which, as is the way of 99% of all remixes, are just plain bad, so dont confuse the original with any newer version.

I enjoy raggae alot too, but I did not hear many good artists besides Bob Marley who is also partial. In generes that are specific to a location or a country, I tend to like the originals, in the rythm aspect anyway.

There are alot of good Jazz around! I especialy like -

- Anything by Antonio Carlos Jobim (Brazilian song writer, has simple yet great melodies and harmoies). There are 2 Verve collections I recommend - "the girl from ipanema" and "wave", which include many top performers.

- Anything that Ella Fitzgerald sings

- Chick Corea and Return to Forever - Light as a Feather.

- Oldies Big bands! I have a soft spot for clean brass sound. Count Basie's Orchestras were real virtuosos. (someone here noted the canadian brass, a must for any brass lover).

- Gershwin.

And of course I cant finish the list without classical. Since this part can go on for pages I'll just try to point some highlights -

- Beethoven:

7th symphony, the finale makes a good orchestra explode!

5th symphony, 3rd movement, the moment that the horn enters with the theme in the begining.

- Mozart, besides the requiem (which deserves the second mention ) I especialy like the 3rd movement of Symphony #40 (and everything else..).

- Glenn Gould Plays Bach. He is plays very different from any other pianist. Every single note of his is fresh.

- Schubert, the unfinished symphony, (#8), first movement. His lieder are amazing ("Die schonne mullerin","wintereise", and in this case, knowing the lyrics helps understand the music even where the words are not so interesting in themselves).

- Brahms, his symphonies (hard to choose between them), A German Requeim.

- Tchaikovsky, I dont recall anybody here mentioned The Nutcracker Suite/Ballet.

- Rachmaninoff - I'll skip the obvious usual. His Vocalise is amazing. It comes in many versions (im not sure which is the original), the best I heard are either voice and orchestra or cello and piano (I played that so im bribed).

- Astor Piazzolla (he is a modern musician, can fit under Jazz too) You'd think Tango played on an accordion would be annoying

My favorite movie composers are John Williams and Danny Elfman. Listening to themes from good nostalgic movies has a huge extra positive effect, but their music is (mentally undetachable but) wonderful in itself.

Which brings me to musicals - West Side Story! or The sound of music which is not bad as a movie in itself but the music makes it grand.

I can generaly listen and enjoy most music generes, there is good and bad in everything, but there are some things I try to avoid - Modern classical music, which is all around me as a music student. There are technicaly very good composers that I sometimes cant stand (their more known pieces anyway), like stravinsky and more questionably Shostakovitch and Bartok. My problem with Stravinsky is that his music is very powerful, but in a negative way. Unlike the crap that can be just ignored, some pieces are very effective in the way they make you feel bad! (schoenberg's Pierott lunare is supposed to make you moon sick, and the sick part definately works for me...)

Some of today's popular music is a second bad spot. Most Rap, Trance (or anything with the monotonous usualy overloud bass, especialy remixes of good songs!!), and songs where the singer shouts (extreme heavy metal) or just doesn't know how to sing (this is a bad description becuase it can include Louis armstrong, who cant really sing but is a pleasure to listen to.)

I'm tempted to go on and discuss more generally what makes music good, or art, but that is for another thread. This one is far too long allready!

Happy listening!

[Brian]

Sorry if I am digressing or if anything related to my question has been presented but I am in a hurry. I understand it that Rand did not like much of anything outside of classical? I know she didn't like Rock. Are we to assume/did she give reasons for assuming that these other types of music are immoral, or that it is a subjective personal preference?

[Betsy]

Sorry if I am digressing or if anything related to my question has been presented but I am in a hurry.  I understand it that Rand did not like much of anything outside of classical?

That's false. She loved her "Tiddlywink" music which was the light, popular music of her youth as well as Ragtime and Jazz of the 1920's.

[Oxygen]

I enjoy Rush very much. Which of their albums contains most and best objectivistic lyrics?

They are on tour as somebody wrote, and performes in Stockholm / Sweden where I live in September. How are their concerts?

Have a great day!

[gnargtharst]

You can find Rush lyrics here:

http://www.lyricscafe.com/r/rush.htm

(beware of rabid pop-up ads)

Objectivism-sympathetic lyrics can be found throughout, with the exception of the very first album. The album "2112" acknowledges the "Genius of Ayn Rand" in the liner notes. "Fly by Night" has a song called "Anthem" clearly influenced by Objectivism.

Some of my favorites are "Vital Signs", "Prime Mover", and "Freewill".