Can I Regain My Morality And Self-respect?

[chicoflaco]

If a person falls off the Objectivism train and loses his rationality, morality, principles and all that, is it possible to just pick oneself up and say, the past is the past and now I will lead my life accordingly?

I seem to stumble quite a bit in my life and I always try to do what is right, but guilt is a lingering thing. For example, sometimes I outright lie (or sometimes a simple white lie) to people to get what I want, and though they perhaps will never know the lie, I still feel it isn't 100% right on some level. Other times when I go against my morality I try to rationalize it, which never seems to quite work. I even download stuff from the internet, and I try to justify if this is truly wrong. Sometimes I wish I were an unthinking machine without emotions. Leading a Galt or Roark life existence is not easy for me...I am the first to admit that I'm almost a Peter Keating-type, but I want to change! Doing the right thing is never the easiest, I know. Do I need to go around to all the people I've lied to etc, and make things right in order to feel better about myself, or can I just promise to be a better person?

[entripon]

I think the primary cause of failing to live up to your moral code (as well as feeling guilt for your failure) is implicitly accepting it as a duty ethic, rather than as a tool for bettering your life. A lot of people see morality as an end in itself, some standard to which you *have* to live up to, and otherwise you are a bad person. This mindset is completely false: morality is a means to an end, and that end is the achievement of your life and happiness. Speaking from personal experience, once you begin to understand (not just on paper or in your mind, but "deep in your soul") that there is no dichotomy between the moral and the practical, it becomes much easier to be ethical, because you see that following such a path will lead to a longer, happier life. It looks to me like you have a theoretical understanding of Objectivism, but not a practical one. In other words, you know that Ayn Rand said that so and so is good and so and so is evil, but you haven't seen the truth of those statements in your own life. For example, you may not see how illegally downloading music is destructive to your own well-being; you just know that according to Objectivism it is immoral. Then, when you do go download music, you feel a sense of guilt because you think that what you've done is "wrong", but you are unable to see exactly why. Ultimately, it's up to you to figure out what is right and wrong; if you don't see the practicality in following Objectivist principles, then don't follow them. (But keep studying, and eventually you will see that they are indeed practical.)

I think you just need to realize that you have no one to please but yourself - that you don't have to live up to any standard not set by you, based on your own happiness as your ultimate goal. Your purpose in life should not be to live like Howard Roark, it should be to live like you, and once you do that the rest will follow. As an aside, trying to live up to some model of what a person is "supposed" to be, such as Roark or Galt, is itself quite Keating-esque. Keating was always trying to to please others, to be what others wanted him to be, neglecting his own goals and ambitions. Even if your role model is a good one, modeling yourself after that individual should only be a means to better enjoying your life, not an end in itself.

[chicoflaco]

Some salient points, thank you.

As for downloading stuff, I don't really feel guilty about that one. SHould I though?!

[FeatherFall]

Some salient points, thank you.

As for downloading stuff, I don't really feel guilty about that one. SHould I though?!

That depends how you download. If you are getting the music/movies/programs from a source that pays royalties to the owners of the intellectual property, or the owners are not asking for payment, then there is no reason to feel guilt.

If you're downloading stuff from a source that offers the intellectual property of another without the sanction of it's owners, then you are attempting to gain a value by denying the source of that value. You are acting contrary to the principle that people have a right to the values they create, and you undermine your own rights in the process. That's something that should cause you guilt.

[chicoflaco]

if it doesn't cause me any guilt at all, does that mean i can't be an objectivist? i do feel guilt if i hurt someone directly however, so rule out sociopathy!

and i don't like the shouldpart, like i should feel guilty. that seems to be imparting ur own sense of morality onto me. I am a musician too and i openly share my music online, but that just came to me right now and didn't really mean to play into my argument here

[softwareNerd]

Aside: Could you use standard English capitalization please.

If it doesn't cause me any guilt at all, does that mean I can't be an Objectivist?

Please don't go there! Let's not have another thread on who an Objectivist is.

What it does mean, if you don't feel guilt, is that you have not fully grasped why it is wrong. So, the first step is to figure out if it is wrong or not. Do you understand the reason why it is wrong to download stuff when the producer has asked you not to? If you understand that, you might still feel something along the lines of: "Well I understand the intellectual argument, but I really don't feel guilt." However, if you don't get the argument in the first place, that would be the best place to start. So, where are you in this road from nonchalance to guilt ?

Also, I'm sure this must have been covered in an earlier topic. Search for "downloading" and similar terms. If I find a reference, I'll post it here.

[FeatherFall]

I like where SoftwareNerd was going with his last post. Defining your understanding will help us to know where to take this.

and i don't like the shouldpart, like i should feel guilty. that seems to be imparting ur own sense of morality onto me. I am a musician too and i openly share my music online, but that just came to me right now and didn't really mean to play into my argument here

Emotions are instant representations of one's subconsciously held evaluations. If you have made a value judgment enough times, those beliefs will evoke an emotional response when you encounter a certain situation.

Guilt is the emotion evoked by actions taken that are in conflict with your established moral principles. I said should in my last post because there are objective moral principles. The principle in question: It is wrong to accept a value while denying its source, therefore it is right to feel guilt when you do so.

If the correct value judgments have not been made, then the wrong emotional response will be evoked (or, at the very least, no emotional response will be evoked).

Edited December 20, 2005 by FeatherFall

[softwareNerd]

I just came across a previous thread on the topic of "downloading music". Check it out before you post.

[Ravane]

This seems like a question you should ask and answer youself.

I won't tell you you can regain your morality, I won't even tell you if you've lost it as I don't know what your current morality is based on.

If you are interested in reasserting an Objectivist philosophical rule over your life, I don't think promises or apologies are the way to go.

"and i don't like the should part, like i should feel guilty. that seems to be imparting ur own sense of morality onto me."

But I am, because Objectivism epistimology is the code of morality I have chosen to follow. What else, pray tell, would you like me to impart? I'm not going to advise you on Hinduism, Christianity or Marxism. I am not a Marxist: I have little interest in advising you in any moral code but my own, and would not have bothered to do so had you not directly asked.

I know the comment was not directed to me but I wanted to express my disdain at the statement.

As it has been previously stated, your morality is a personal choice that should not be affected by anything but your own judgement.

I have lied to people. It is wrong, I accept that the concequence of lying is that I become less trustworthy. I don't feel guilty about it. I came to the conclusion that the individual involved didn't deserve the truth and/or telling it would greatly inconvienience me, to the benefit of neither party. Is it still wrong? Probably- I should tell the truth, regardless, for the sake of my own integrity.

So I do my best not to lie, because I don't like lying, and because I want to be trustworthy. However, I have lied- does that mean I'm damned forever? Certainly not. I look at it this way: I will accomplish great things, things that will overshadow any mistakes I have made. And I continue to learn.

I used to download music. I still have music downloaded on my computer, but I've bought most of the albums I have downloaded, and am working on purchasing the rest.

Your personal decision to make your music avaliable online has absolutely nothing to with, or any affect upon, the decisions of other musicians to profit off of their talent. Essentially, they owe you nothing. Funny that you should be offended at the idea of others applying their morality to you, but you don't flinch at doing so yourself.

If you disagree with the idea that they should want to make money off of their music, or that they should give freely their talents to you, then maybe you should find a new philosophy because, essentially, by downloading music you are saying just that.

If there are things about you that you don't like; change them. You are a living, breathing, thinking organism, and as long as you continue to think, you can change. However, once you decide to stop thinking, and rely on others to accept yourself, you are already dead.

Again, as stated previously, your ultimate philosophical goal should be your own happiness. Objectivism is a means to that goal; probably one of the best I've witnessed, but don't accept that just because I said it. Examine other philosophies before you become so settled on this one; perhaps the flaws in the others will help you understand the ideas behind this one.

[iouswuoibev]

If a person falls off the Objectivism train and loses his rationality, morality, principles and all that, is it possible to just pick oneself up and say, the past is the past and now I will lead my life accordingly?

When you "fall off", do you learn anything from the experience?

How often has this happened to you? Is it a collapse of integrity that occurs once a year, or some minor transgression that happens three times a day?

[chicoflaco]

Reading all of your replies makes me realize that I'm not perfect, but as long as I'm striving in the right direction to make myself a better person, than that is what really matters.

[erik]

It doesn't sound like you really ever "got on" to me.

[chicoflaco]

It doesn't sound like you really ever "got on" to me.

Gee thanks for the warmth Erik. If you consider the North American society as a whole, I'm freaking pious in comp!

[Rationalis]

"Gee thanks for the warmth Erik. If you consider the North American society as a whole, I'm freaking pious in comp!"

Please elaborate on this point, do you mean to say that the culture of North America, is, as a whole, less in agreement with Objectivist principles than some other culture you are comparing it to and if so what is it that you are comparing it to? Was there some point I missed in your arguement?