How To Think?

[tnunamak]

This is one of those questions where I'm not completely sure what I'm asking, so part of this is out of the hope that I can at least figure that out.

Everyone knows someone who talks too much... the guy who can ramble on for five minutes about an array of enough random topics to fill a book. For some people, I could see that as being a problem. My concern is somewhat opposite. It seems like, unless my mind has something important to consider, it is just void. I'm not just talking about conversation, I'll be walking somewhere, driving, etc, and realize that I haven't actually thought about anything for a few minutes, that I've just been watching the things around me as if I were watching a movie that I didn't necessarily have much interest in.

Concerning conversation, I used to be quite shy and a bit of social wreck with big self esteem issues, so I can understand why I would have had trouble with finding words to talk to people in the past. Now, however, I am probably more confident than most people, and I don't really have any kind of social anxiety when dealing with other people... but I still have trouble with conversation sometimes. Usually I can manage to avoid the akward pauses where no one knows what to say, but that isn't always enjoyable and when it's a good friend then it kind of defeats the purpose. I don't think it's so much a problem with my male friends but with girls, and anyone else who I don't have specific things in common with, even if I'm 100% comfortable around them, it can be hard to keep up with the conversation.

I don't think the problem is just conversation however, I think it has more to do with my ability to actively think. Now, if you put something concrete in front of me, like a philosophical question or math problem, my thought processes function quite well. But when it comes to something like conversation, my mind doesn't fare too well.

I don't really know how to explain it further... so if someone can figure out what I'm talking about, maybe I can find a way to fix it? Maybe it's not really as much a problem as I think it is?

[softwareNerd]

Now, if you put something concrete in front of me, like a philosophical question or math problem, my thought processes function quite well.

When it comes to the types of conversations you mention, are you the one who usually "puts something concrete" out there or are you the one responding? Are you choosing what to talk about?

[JMeganSnow]

I think, indeed, this is not nearly as much of a problem as you think it is.

Firstly, it's perfectly fine to have pauses in the conversation, if you have to talk talk talk all the time you may be a bit hyperactive. I know this because I'm a hyper conversationalist . . . I will actually have to force myself to pause in case, hey, someone else wanted to say something. Sometimes I forget. Yet no one ever tells me to shut up. Other people's good manners are the devil, I tell you.

It's almost impossible to have a discussion about pure abstractions without actually talking about something concrete, if only because 90% of the time no one will have any idea what you're talking about anyway. I've found the way to have lots of conversation topics is to have lots of interests. When was the last time you did something really new? That's a good conversation topic. Contrary to what people say, your job, hobbies, and other friends ARE interesting, if they are relevant somehow.

As for wandering around not thinking about much: that's when your brain is taking a break. You should be in my shoes right now . . . get up in the morning and *think think think* all the way to work then work work work until my entire head aches and my eyes are starting to lose focus . . . then lunch and work some more, going home at the last possible minute and then sitting here wondering what on earth to write for my blog. I could do with a day where I didn't have to think as hard as I possibly could and tackle ten impossible problems before lunch. Enjoy it while you can.

[iouswuoibev]

This is one of those questions where I'm not completely sure what I'm asking, so part of this is out of the hope that I can at least figure that out.

Everyone knows someone who talks too much... the guy who can ramble on for five minutes about an array of enough random topics to fill a book. For some people, I could see that as being a problem. My concern is somewhat opposite. It seems like, unless my mind has something important to consider, it is just void. I'm not just talking about conversation, I'll be walking somewhere, driving, etc, and realize that I haven't actually thought about anything for a few minutes, that I've just been watching the things around me as if I were watching a movie that I didn't necessarily have much interest in.

Concerning conversation, I used to be quite shy and a bit of social wreck with big self esteem issues, so I can understand why I would have had trouble with finding words to talk to people in the past. Now, however, I am probably more confident than most people, and I don't really have any kind of social anxiety when dealing with other people... but I still have trouble with conversation sometimes. Usually I can manage to avoid the akward pauses where no one knows what to say, but that isn't always enjoyable and when it's a good friend then it kind of defeats the purpose. I don't think it's so much a problem with my male friends but with girls, and anyone else who I don't have specific things in common with, even if I'm 100% comfortable around them, it can be hard to keep up with the conversation.

Are your friends going to get up and leave you if you don't keep them entertained? In the end you only have to please yourself, which means: only speak on your behalf, not because you sense that someone expects something from you (that sense will never go away, but you are entirely free to do what you want in how you respond to it; you are probably better off not paying attention to it 99% of the time). If you aren't able to continually produce conversation, then DON'T TRY. Maybe the release of pressure will even allow you to think of more things to talk about (and maybe it won't). The effort of "trying" to produce conversation sounds self-defeating to me. People never talk for no reason (unless they're psychotic), even if the content of their words is reasonless. The reason must come from within you, because it's something you truly, personally want to express, not because of how it will affect someone else. That should never be your primary intent.

In any event, you'll be more true to yourself, and if your friends do get up and leave you because you don't talk enough, then that's probably the best thing that could happen because you were only keeping them around you because you were trying to please them. You can then go and find friends that can take you exactly how you are, quiet conversationalist and all.

I don't think the problem is just conversation however, I think it has more to do with my ability to actively think. Now, if you put something concrete in front of me, like a philosophical question or math problem, my thought processes function quite well. But when it comes to something like conversation, my mind doesn't fare too well.

I think you need to regain a sense of wanting to say something solely because you want to say it. If you can't think of anything to say, it's because you have nothing you want to say. It sounds obvious, and you can only overlook that fact if you were conflating other people's (possibly imaginary) demands on your person, and the things you actually want from and for yourself.

[iouswuoibev]

And about uncomfortable silences: they're not possible if you're 100% selfish 100% of the time. The discomfort comes from thinking that the other person is uncomfortable: that person's discomfort (if it exists) comes from thinking that you are uncomfortable. These expectations feed of each other and become self-fulfilling. If a conversation falls silent, I just sit there, maybe watching the other person, maybe not, without trying to think of anything and without paying mind to what they might be thinking. Because I don't want to talk to them at that particular moment. Often the other person seems to sense that I'm actually not uncomfortable with being silent, and that puts them at ease. They may look silly and I just look at them as if to say "What's the matter?" and they don't feel such a strong pull to say something.

[BetTheFarm]

And about uncomfortable silences: they're not possible if you're 100% selfish 100% of the time. The discomfort comes from thinking that the other person is uncomfortable: that person's discomfort (if it exists) comes from thinking that you are uncomfortable. These expectations feed of each other and become self-fulfilling. If a conversation falls silent, I just sit there, maybe watching the other person, maybe not, without trying to think of anything and without paying mind to what they might be thinking. Because I don't want to talk to them at that particular moment. Often the other person seems to sense that I'm actually not uncomfortable with being silent, and that puts them at ease. They may look silly and I just look at them as if to say "What's the matter?" and they don't feel such a strong pull to say something.

I respectfully disagree. To a selfish man, there is value to be found in conversation with other men (with some men, some of the time). To converse is to engage in an exchange or trade of thoughts. If a man values the exchange of thoughts, he may want to be a practiced trader, i.e., a good conversationalist. Awareness of the comfort of those to whom one is speaking is one skill that a good conversationalist may want to posses. Therefore, being selfish does not necessarily imply that one is unaware of the comfort of others.

[iouswuoibev]

I respectfully disagree. To a selfish man, there is value to be found in conversation with other men (with some men, some of the time). To converse is to engage in an exchange or trade of thoughts. If a man values the exchange of thoughts, he may want to be a practiced trader, i.e., a good conversationalist.

By what standard do you determine whether you're a good conversationalist?

Awareness of the comfort of those to whom one is speaking is one skill that a good conversationalist may want to posses.

It's not a skill, it's a faculty.

Therefore, being selfish does not necessarily imply that one is unaware of the comfort of others.

Where did I say otherwise?

[Myself]

In regard to "uncomfortable" pauses in conversation - I think they stem from something else entirely. When an awkward pause happens, a person feels awkward because they would like to keep the conversation going but find that they have nothing else to discuss. When neither of you have anything to talk about (especially with good friends) it may seem like a sign that you are losing common interests, or a friendship is fading.

I also think that good communication is a skill - something that has to be developed. In order to carry on conversations you have to: 1. have something to talk about, 2. possess the ability to judge and evaluate ideas quickly, 3. give consideration for the other person to respond, and 4. have a high enough confidence to allow for the fact that you may make mistakes while talking and to be able to keep going anyway.

If you know that the person you are talking with is compatible and comfortable, and a friendship just isn't fading, you may simply be not following Step 2 - if you are constantly focusing on the conversation, usually one topic leads into the next. et cetra. You may be growing too complacent or comfortable to the point of not really paying attention to what's being said. Try actively listening and thinking about the conversation and topic and you may find your awkward pauses dissapear.

Edited January 8, 2006 by Myself

[EC]

What if it is that most people simply talk about things that are pointless or boring and when you try and move the conversation in a more interesting direction they either don't fully understand or their eye's start to glaze over?

[Myself]

What if it is that most people simply talk about things that are pointless or boring and when you try and move the conversation in a more interesting direction they either don't fully understand or their eye's start to glaze over?

That's possible - but then they aren't the sort of people you want to have conversations with. Simply conversing (ie. talking about the weather, day to day happenings) isn't a conversation, although it could lead to one. Speaking with another person is trading value for value - and some conversations trade considerably less value. Edited January 8, 2006 by Myself

[DrBaltar]

Doctors call this "Cocktail Chatter". I have twins - boy & a girl. When they were about 2, my wife & I noticed that my daughter was quite a conversationalist, and listened. My son didn't say much. We asked their doctor about that during a checkup, and the doctor said there is something they call cocktail chatter where some people just yap about anything and everything. And then there are those like myself, tnunamak, and my son, who if they have nothing to say, don't say anything. My son isn't dumb, he's actually a pretty bright guy. He may not talk much, but the wheels are turning inside. That's just being an introvert.

Another thing that could be happening is that you may be thinking visually. Some people (myself included) do that rather than thinking with words. It's a far more efficient way to process information, although it may have caused you a little trouble at some point in school because they do not teach the way visual thinkers learn. So when you think your mind is void, it's probably still thinking and processing visually rather than with words, leaving you the impression that nothing is going on in there.

I do wish I could develop the skill of conversation better though. I agree with BetTheFarm that conversation is beneficial to those who know how to use it. It establishes a rapport between people and builds trust, and enables better flow of information and ideas.

Edited January 8, 2006 by DrBaltar

[UberGiant]

An effective way I find in creating conversation and it is a technique used by companies in training employees is keywords. Once communication starts, listen to what the person is saying. Pick out the keywords which will usually be nouns. Question it. Humour them by twisting it. Elaborate and build from this. The keyword can become the topic. Its not THE solution to conversations but it helps with my self impovement and communication.

[NewYorkRoark]

tnunamak, I don't mean to steal the spotlight, but I'd like to tag on a related question.

One problem that I've always had is that my thoughts move faster than me ability to communicate them. I think a key to articulate, confident communication lies in ones ability to move through their thoughts and their words at the same speed (not to get ahead of themselves). A lot of times, I'll have to go back to clarify things.

Another is speaking in front of crowds or on a date or what have you. Why does one become nervous and what can one do to combat those nerves? How do you settle down and bring your mind into focus? Perhaps other's have the same problem?