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Recent Protest About Cartoons

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Perhaps they should, that doesn't change the fact that it is an innappropriate item to put on military clothing. If we do that, then we can put WHATEVER we want on our uniforms. (In which case, mine would be covered in "Calvin and Hobbes.") If civilians CHOOSE (key word here) to wear such an item, that is up to them. One should not be FORCED to wear a political cartoon. That would oppression (of the strangest kind).

If you know of a Calvin and Hobbes cartoon that is demoralizing to Muslims, then I would all in favor of placing it on the uniforms of our troops in Iraq. I also agree that no soldier should be forced to wear a uniform he didn't like -- just as no soldier should be forced to salute an officer, march in formation or make up his bunk in the morning. Those who don't like serving should be kicked out and shipped home pronto.

I agree with demoralizing them. However moving the ENTIRE Islamic culture to the extremist side only gives THEM more ammo.

If anybody is going to get upset over a silly little cartoon, then they are already extremist. As far as I'm concerned, any dope that prays to Allah is a nut job of the most extreme variety. But to start rioting over a few lines scribbed in a paper takes the cake. All those guys yelling their heads off in the streets -- that's your enemy right there, Jack. Lock and load.

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What is the arguement here, that all muslims are evil and therefore must be humiliated by democratic representitives, even those they may have voted for?
No, I think it is that all (true) Muslims are evil and they should be combatted by whatever means is necessary. That might include polite public criticism, ridicule, shooting... really, it depends. The people who engage in the mockery should not be limited to Democratic representatives, but can include also Republican senators, presidents, judges, teachers, grocery store clerks, computer programmers and anyone else with a desire to do so. An exception could be made for military mockery: it would be reasonable, given the nature of the job they are supposed to be doing, to require them to do whatever destroys the enemy. That would not be an appropriate obligatory requirement for non-military government personel, but still a good idea.
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A few days ago, some Iranian group was sponsoring a contest that would have cartoons of Jews, the Holocast, and other themes that might offend Israelis. A news-story today talks of an Israel-based company that is having a similar contest, to demonstrate that they can "laugh at themselves".

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If you know of a Calvin and Hobbes cartoon that is demoralizing to Muslims, then I would all in favor of placing it on the uniforms of our troops in Iraq. I also agree that no soldier should be forced to wear a uniform he didn't like -- just as no soldier should be forced to salute an officer, march in formation or make up his bunk in the morning. Those who don't like serving should be kicked out and shipped home pronto.

You twisted and misinterpretted my words. The military uniform (as I wear it.) is set to represent all the folks who wear it. All soldiers salute officers because of their achievements and responsibilities. We march in formation because it shows uniformity and discipline. The same with our bunks. None of those will insult or offend a said soldier (or shouldn't, by any means). There are MANY muslims who serve in our American Army who follow (more or less) the same rules as the rest of the muslims. They serve this country just as proudly as the rest of us (regardless of their flaws) and we don't need to insult THEM by putting a stupid cartoon on a MILITARY uniform. But moreso, as I said before, it would serve no purpose other than to add fuel (not demoralize) the enemy's motivation. But, if you'd like, please feel free to go over there with that T-shirt on.

If anybody is going to get upset over a silly little cartoon, then they are already extremist. As far as I'm concerned, any dope that prays to Allah is a nut job of the most extreme variety. But to start rioting over a few lines scribbed in a paper takes the cake. All those guys yelling their heads off in the streets -- that's your enemy right there, Jack. Lock and load.

Not terribly different than christians in Northern Ireland... Quite frankly...it's not any different than ANY OTHER terrorist group (be it christians, pro-life, or other hate-groups.) We just choose to put the focus (currently) on muslims. Everyone has to have something to be angry about. Some folks just get stupider than others about it.

A few days ago, some Iranian group was sponsoring a contest that would have cartoons of Jews, the Holocast, and other themes that might offend Israelis. A news-story today talks of an Israel-based company that is having a similar contest, to demonstrate that they can "laugh at themselves".

Now...THAT is a nice counter. Make them look silly. I think that's how you fight this sort of thing. It may not be terribly successful. But, I like it.

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Ministers forced out as cartoon row escalates

Initially resisting calls for his resignation, Italian Reforms Minister Roberto Calderoli stepped down after he was widely blamed for bloody clashes in Libya over cartoons of the Prophet which he had made into T-shirts and wore on television.

Sigh.

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There are two things I find disturbing about the "Cartoon Affair."

First is the obvious: the rioting muslims, and even those "peacefully" protesting, are making clear their view of what the world ought to be: We ought all to be bowing before Allahs commands, whether we believe in him (and his prophet) or not. This is not exactly news. That such a demonstration of intentions should be met with relatively little outrage and even appeasment on the part of Western political leaders is disgraceful, but not exactly a surprise.

The second thing I find disturbing, and I haven't decided whether it shold be more-so than the first or not, is the attitude that a religion should be immune from criticism. This attitude is the basis on which the efforts at appeasement depend. What I find disturbing about it is that ideas based on faith are given a free-pass because they are based on faith. The notion that one's religion, no matter how blatantly evil, ought not to be a subject of critical discussion is being taken almost as a given. Ideas based on reason, by definition, require justification, and rightly so. If someone wants to criticize or even ridicule them, they are free to do so. To the extent that the ideas they criticize are true, they will only make themselves look ridiculous. On the other hand, ideas based on faith, which ought to be criticized and ridiculed for that reason alone, are given a free pass.

I haven't been able to find the reference, but somewhere in one of Rand's books (The Virtue of Selfishness, I think) she says something about the image of a timid, self-effacing good and a virulently self-righteous evil. (I'm paraphrasing as best I can.) We're certainly seeing it.

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15 people dead in Nigeria and 11 more in Libya, yet we hardly hear a word of condemnation from our politicians. Their philosophical impotence is on display for all to see. Of course when the Islamists detect weakness, they push even harder. Now they're calling for an international law against insulting any religion!

In Cairo, Bishop Karsten Nissen, of Denmark's Evangelical Lutheran Church, met with Grand Imam Mohammed Sayyed Tantawi of al-Azhar University, the world's highest Sunni Muslim seat of learning.

Tantawi said the Danish prime minister must apologize for the drawings and further demanded that the world's religious leaders, including him and

Pope Benedict XVI, should meet to write a law that "condemns insulting any religion, including the Holy Scriptures and the prophets." He said the

United Nations should then impose the law on all countries.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060218/ap_on_...rophet_drawings

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I find the protest and the deaths related to this cartoon sad but the fact that the media is clamming up and self-censoring has prompted me into action (they've actually blurred the image out!). After Theo van Gogh died I was angry but I didn't know what I could do so, like most people, I didn't do anything. After the TV channels started openly admitting that they wouldn't show the cartoon, I and some friends decided to post it up around the area, but we changed our minds fearing that the message would be misinterpreted for one of hatred.

Onkar Ghate (a senior fellow at the Ayn Rand Institute) and Christian Beenfeldt wrote an article called The Cartoon Jihad: Free Speech in the Balance http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=4567

In the article he said

"The issue at stake is the right to speak one's mind.

Recognizing this, many European newspapers reprinted the cartoons. Echoing the story of the defiant slaves, who, when the Romans came for Spartacus, the leader of their rebellion, each proclaimed "I am Spartacus"--this was a clear show of support for the Danish paper and a symbolic affirmation of the right to free speech.

In the United States, however, fear of Muslim anger has suppressed a similar show of support."

That is why my friends (and now hopefully more people) have taken those words and turned them into a battle cry "I Too Am Spartacus" to show our support for those who are not willing to be silent. We do fear retaliation and creating more violence, but to give into that fear is to willingly give over our minds. I hope this doesn't get deleted because this isn't spam, I've been on this board before (under a different name of course) and I appreciate the rational minds and the desire for intellectual communication that most of you express here. If the intellectuals refuse to stand up, nobody will. I'm not willing to watch allies in the fight against irrationality perish anymore.

I hesitate to put my blog address up because I think that's why my other posts were deleted, but the link is in my profile.

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Echoing the story of the defiant slaves, who, when the Romans came for Spartacus, the leader of their rebellion, each proclaimed "I am Spartacus"--this was a clear show of support for the Danish paper and a symbolic affirmation of the right to free speech.

If I remember the movie correctly, the result was that the Romans crucified all the rebels instead of just Spartacus alone. :)

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Now Bill Clinton has called for "countries concerned to convict the publishers" of the cartoons.

ISLAMABAD: Former US president Bill Clinton on Friday condemned the publication of Prophet Muhammad’s (PBUH) caricatures by European newspapers and urged countries concerned to convict the publishers.

Talking to reporters after meeting Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz in Islamabad, Clinton said he disagreed with the caricatures and that the publication was against religious and ethical norms.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?p...18-2-2006_pg1_7

Man, you can really count on Bill to stand on principle when the going gets tough! His visa should be revoked.

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Sheesh...if you can't make fun of religion....what's left to make fun of?

I don't think there's anyway that an international law, like that, could get passed (but, I've been wrong before). Welcome, my friends, to 1984. Big Brother really IS watching you.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I like the commentary from this website:

young_bombing_victim.jpg Muhammad_Cartoon.jpg

The picture on the left is of a lucky young girl who managed to avoid being slaughtered in the name of Allah as thousands of other children and innocent people are by Islamic terrorists each year. The drawing on the right is a cartoon. Only one of these images provokes Muslims into rage, fiery demonstrations, boycotts and death threats against the perpetrators. Do you understand Islam well enough to know which one?

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  • 6 months later...

First it was cartoons, now it's a Mozart opera! In the Motzart opera "Idomeneo",

King Idomeneo is shown staggering on stage next to the severed heads of Buddha, Jesus, Poseidon and the Prophet Mohammad, which sit on chairs.
So, a Berlin opera house has announced that they'll be doing "The Marriage of Figaro" and "La Traviata" instead.
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I saw a t-shirt that was kind of funny, but I want to have the design tweaked a little, as such:

On the front are the words "There is a picture of Mohammad on the back of this shirt."

On the back is that really famous picture of Mohammad Ali. Under the picture, there are the words "Please don't kill me."

Edited by Moose
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  • 4 weeks later...
...a Berlin opera house has announced that they'll be doing "The Marriage of Figaro" and "La Traviata" instead.
BBC reports that the original opera will go ahead.
German Interior Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble called the decision crazy and Chancellor Angela Merkel warned against "self-censorship out of fear".

On Thursday, the police told the opera company that its staff faced "no concrete danger" if the performances went ahead, and would discuss any possible security measures ahead of the performances

.

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