Why Not Subject-oriented Consciousness?

[Starblade]

It seems to me that there are more components to consciousness than simply objective ones. The main one I am thinking of is that I am me. Now that may seem like a tautology, but it establishes an important principle: That I am me is not a temporary fact. I will always be me. It is in the nature of the universe such that I am me. That in some circumstance I would not be me is impossible. That I am me is the reason for MY birth. While some human could have been born of my name, and indeed all of my qualities except that of true subject-oriented selfhood, it did not just happen like that. That person was me.

This seems to defy the objectivity of every single other thing in the world. It is not just consciousness, but volition which does this as well. Volition applies because to be conscious, I must be conscious AS something with the nature of said consciousness, and something with the nature of said consciousness is in complete control of themself, therefore I am in complete control of myself, and thus posess volition.

I will not ask the necessary follow up question (which involves something more controversial than mere I am me philosophy) if some error can be shown in my judgement but ultimately I think I have proven my point. True selfdom, which is the sum of consciousness and volition, is an ontological necessity just as is existence and identity. If this is wrong, then how is it that I am me? If you can answer that question without presuming the ontological truth of the self, then do so. If not, then... well, just sit back and watch, though I'm sure exercizing your volition rather than just your consciousness will be a lot more fun.

[RationalBiker]

That I am me is the reason for MY birth.

Actually, I think you need to talk to your parents about the reason for your birth. They may have wanted A child, there is no way they would have known that they would have YOU.

While some human could have been born of my name, and indeed all of my qualities except that of true subject-oriented selfhood, it did not just happen like that.

Yes, like everything else, you are subject to the law of identity. This does not make things other than you subjective.

This seems to defy the objectivity of every single other thing in the world.

This conclusion does not follow the premises you layed out above. Your existence does not defy anything, except well, maybe death (for as long as you are alive), but that's probably a good thing.

What is it about your existence that you think defies objective reality?

[softwareNerd]

A quick questio, Starblade: is your post merely your subjective opinion that is not relevant to any reader here, or are you attempting to point out an objective fact?

[hunterrose]

It seems to me that there are more components to consciousness than simply objective ones. The main one I am thinking of is that I am me. Now that may seem like a tautology...

Indeed. How could it be proven false?

something with the nature of said consciousness is in complete control of themself, therefore I am in complete control of myself, and thus posess volition.

The first premise seems highly questionable, and besides, this would mean that anything possessing consciousness (in the axiomatic sense) is volitonal?

[DavidOdden]

This seems to defy the objectivity of every single other thing in the world.

Can you explain what you mean by "objectivity"? Is this coffee cup on my desk objective or subjective? Does a coffee cup become subjective when someone buys it? I think before you sling around terms like "objective" and "subjective", it would be useful to get a firm grip on what the terms mean.

[Hal]

Subjective/objective mean different things to different people. The Objectivist definition of these terms is very different from standard/academic usage - being subjective in the Objectivist sense basically mean 'being made up/imaginary' - its a term of disparagement. So in this sense, consciousness obviously isnt subjective. But outwith Objectivism, subjective means 'pertaining to the subject' - eg being a first person phenomena that isnt publically observable. And if we want to use the word this way, then conscious is subjective.

An example of a viewpoint which treats consciousness objectively would be hard-line behaviorism - for instance, the hard-line behaviorist would say that consciousness is entirely objective, in the sense that it is a publically observable phenomena which can be studied scientifically in the same way we can study trees.

Edited April 18, 2006 by Hal