Conflicting Emotions

[tripledigit]

Hi, I am new here and desperately seek some objective advice. Not sure if this is the best place to post this but here goes...

I am getting married at the end of the year and whilst happy about it, have been faced with a big dilemma. I am living with parents and brothers at the moment and the dilemma is that me and my fiance want to move out, but moving out in our circumstance has a few implications.

Firstly, my parents gambled a lot. So much that they basically lost most of the equity in their house and to make matters worse, could not find a job, a situation which is hard to change given that they are now close to pension age. Not to mention a whole heap of credit card debts. So they're facing the real likelihood of retiring without financial support to live by.

Of course, they only have themselves to blame. Yet, as their daughter, I feel a duty to help them. Last year, when matters got really tough, I bought a house so that we could live together. It made sense at the time - they would have some support to get them through their old age, and for me, it was a relief to be able to get myself into a situation where I would only have to worry about my own financial affairs and not other people's. Every time they had a gambling problem in the past, they came to me for financial aid. Each time, I helped them, on the demand that they change their ways. Looking back, I should have said No, but it is hard to do so when its your own parents. I regret that because it made them think that they had someone to bail them out if they needed help. I see now that what I did was not good for them but that is too late to change now.

Anyway, back to the house. I bought the house thinking that I would live with them so that we all didn't have to worry about financial affairs anymore. A lot more stress-free for all of us (of course, that was not the ideal situation but at the time, it seemed like the right thing to do because I was so sick and tired of them complaining about their mortgage and expecting me to pay for it etc etc...) But then, a month after we moved in, my fiance proposed. I always knew we were going to get married and that he would move in with my parents and I. If you think that is strange, then maybe I should say here that we are Asian. In Asian cultures, traditionally, parents have expected that their children would continue to live with them after marriage. They raise us up to adults and we are expected to look after them in their old age.

What I didn't expect was that my feelings would so dramatically change once we moved in. Whilst I was not happy to buy a house to live with them, with the expectation that my fiance and I would live with them after marriage, I at least had resigned myself to what I thought was an unmovable situation. However, once I got engaged, I really started to think seriously about having a house of my mine to start a new life with my fiance. But if I am to move out, there is no way that my parents would be able to cope with the mortgage. Secondly, even if we sell the house, my parents cannot even afford to rent, given their pension status and the amount of debt they still have. I have thought of all possible scenarios and there seems to be a dead end all ways. Without someone to support them, my parents would struggle to live.

My brothers are also at home, but one cannot find a job (yet) and the other is always broke for some reason or another. Neither help out with the finances. I have raised my desire to move out with my parents and they were initially quite appalled, and placed a lot of guilt on me, whehter or not they intended to. I have now got them to a point where they have accepted that I wish to move out, but the reality is also tough. My options are to either buy a smaller place and pay for both mortgages, with some assistance from my parents and brothers when they are able to (but which puts a lot of pressure on me) or to sell up and leave them to tough it out on their own, possibly helping out with finances where I can. Either way is quite a struggle financially. The other option is to live with them, that way everyone is better off financially, but emotionally I don't think I can cope. I need my privacy, and secondly, my parents sometimes argue and still gamble. It makes me angry and frustrated and sad to face their way of life.

Feelings of resentment towards my parents crept in, to the point where I am now cold towards them for putting me in this situation. I need some advice, firstly, on the practical side of what I should do. And almost more importantly, how do I change my feelings to make myself happier and more accepting of what I need to do? Emotionally, I can't see an easy way out. If I live with them, I am burdened by feelings of resentment and I am worried about damaging this could be on our relationship. Yet if I move out, I am burdened by feelings of guilt and I feel ashamed to be putting my parents in financial strife when I can be helping them. I know what I am feeling is completely contradictory but I don't know what to do. If I choose one path over another, how do I stop myself from having those feelings and to accept the situation?

[softwareNerd]

TripleDigit,

Given what you say, you should either ask your parents & brothers to leave your house, or sell this house and move without them. Also tell them that they are not getting another dime from you. Then stick to it -- regardless of how dire their need. In essence, "divorce" the worthless bunch of moochers.

You cannot do this though. The difficulty is not in the doing. The difficult part is in understanding that you are right to do that. Once you realize that, the rest will be easy.

Mind you, I don't write off parents that easily (your brothers are a different issue). Parents do occupy a special place -- without them you would not exist. So, one cuts parents some slack simply because they're your parents. However, this does not give them a blank check. It definitely does not let them treat you like a slave to provide for their whims.

You say that in the past you gave them money on the condition that they change their ways. Then they didn't and they came back for more, and you gave them more. Given that history, I doubt you will have the moral certainity to understand that you are good and they are not, and that they have no right to a single cent or a single thought from you.

Your brothers can support your parents. They can all go live in an apartment somewhere. They'll figure it out. It is not your problem.

[Scott_Connery]

I think their only chance of fixing themselves is if you cut them off. Right now, you are letting them get away with gambling and un-employment. Until you cut them off, they have no reason to change.

[Geoff]

Yet if I move out, I am burdened by feelings of guilt and I feel ashamed to be putting my parents in financial strife when I can be helping them.

What about the situtation you have been put in. Do they feel guilt for mooching off of you? My guess is that they dont since they still havent changed there ways. Should you feel guilt for putting an end to the raid on your pocket book? You have stated that you regret helping them, but you also state that you feel guilt when you think of not helping them. Which one is more reasonable? You helped and you've been slapped in the face repeatedly Vs. If you dont help, what will come of it? You wont be supporting there gambling problem. If thats something to feel guilty about then you got me.

Edited April 20, 2006 by Geoff

[Sherry]

Don't let the unearned guilt that your family keeps trying to place on you ruin your life.

I realize this isn't an easy situation. Especially since it involves your parents. It would be a lot easier if it was just your siblings, sure. But, it sounds like they (your parents) will move out from what you said.

If your siblings value you, they will get over it. If they don't, well, as harsh as it sounds, you don't need them mucking up your life. Co-dependency is a vile thing...truly it is. You need to cut the strings and tell them to sink or swim. It is in your best interest first, but you know what, if they decide to grow up, they will realize it is the best thing for them too.

Could you put together a realistic timeframe of when you what them out? For example, tell the siblings they have 30 days to leave, and the parents 45 days to leave...etc...you may want them out at least a month (or a few) PRIOR to your wedding if at all possible. Weddings are stressful enough. Get the ugliness out of the way as soon as possible so you can focus on your wedding and rearranging your home the way you and and your husband to be wants it to be.

Anyhoo...I would suggest checking in on the time line...so after a few days...hey brother, how are you doing with job interviews, or having you spoken with friends you are going to room with...etc...etc...make sure they understand it is real. If you say "I need you out in a month" and never mention it again during the next 30 days, they may think you are not serious, or lack the courage to enforce it.

Regarding your parents. I don't think it would be wrong for you to pitch in a little bit to help them if you want to, despite how they wasted their money. However, from you describing the situation as "unnmovable" it sounds like you felt you had no choice in buying the house and letting them and your siblings move in. That is wrong. That's probably why you have such an urge to get your own place with your fiance...so you can make decisions that you feel are not forced upon you for the sake of others. The burden and heaviness of blackmail is unbearable!!!!

BTW: whatever you do, if you want a different house and your parents and siblings want to stay in the current one, then make sure you sell it to someone that will rent to them. Don't become their landlord unless you know they will be able to pay you rent.

[tripledigit]

Thank you for your responses. In a way, it has helped to rationalise what I should be feeling. I know that I have done nothing wrong and that it is natural for me to want to get out, but yet, this irrational nagging guilt continues to stick to me. My aunt (mum's sister) said to me the other day that whatever happens they are still my parents and that they used to do so much stuff for me when they had money etc etc, including specific examples like paying for my holidays and buying me my first car and that they would have helped me out to the end if I had needed it, even if it was my fault. Which I know is true, if things were to be turned around and I was to be in a situation of my own making (like gambling or drugs) and needing support, I know that they will look after me to the end...so does that make me a bad daughter and selfish person because I am not willing to do the same for them? Yet, does that mean that regardless of what they do, I am forever bound to them?

[softwareNerd]

Triple,

Your parents decided to have a kid, not the other way around. If they fed you and clothed you, it was an integral part of their decision to have a kid. Moreover, when they bought you a car, did you sell it for drugs, or did you act more or less rationally about it all?

This is not a general question of "what do I owe my parents"? This is not the case of parents who have fallen on bad times. This is not a case of parents (and siblings) who are acting more or less responsibly and whom you help partly for that reason.

You say that if you were a gambler etc., they would stick by you. If they did so a couple of times, that would be pretty normal. One does not simply give up on friends at the first sign of a problem, particularly one's kids and parents. The situation of parents putting up with their prodigal kids is pretty common. However, there are also parents who realize that they are being given a long-term choice of sacrificing themselves to their kids versus cutting their kids off; and they decide that they must stop sacrificing themselves. Even if you assume that you owe your parents something, the debt has been paid. Now, it is "account overdrawn". You are not a bottomless well that they can draw upon regardless. They have to take responsibility for their lives.

Having good rational parents living with one after one is married is not a comfortable situation. Still, that is not the point here. In fact, I'm from "asia" too. So, I fully understand the culture and the ability to live like that. I was in that situation myself for a couple of years and it can be worked out. That is not the point here, this is not about supporting parents per se, it is about supporting parents (and siblings) who refuse ["refuse" is the right word, because they have a choice] to change.

Sherry's advice about setting a time-frame is good.

The first issue you have to tackle, before anything else, is the intellectual understanding of your responsibility and duty and the morality of the alternatives. That is the first and foremost. Without that, you are going to back-down -- perhaps with greater guilt -- when you see your family in a problem. I'm sure there are must be some good books on the specific topic. You might try Dr. Hurd's book-list.

You haven't said if you're an Objectivist. To understand the morality of the issue, I would recommend "The Virture of Selfishness", by Ayn Rand.

Also, you and your husband-to-be need to be on the same page about this; you could sure use his support and encouragement.

In addition, you could fix up a few phone-consultations with a psychologist like Dr. Hurd or Dr. Kenner.

The money spent on all this will be well worth it. You do not have to wait until you've got all this reading and consulting done. Even if you are not yet ready to tell your parents and siblings to leave, you can definitely start asserting yourself. You need to figure out one small way in which you can be more assertive about yourself . Start there, then do something bigger. None of this ought to be a covert operation. You need to sit your parents and siblings down and tell them that you are planning on making big changes and that you do not want them to be taken by surprise, so they should plan to get their act together. If you feel shaky, you might even do this in company of your fiance, with him helping you take a stand. You seem to have spoken to aunts and so on. You might explain to your aunt that you think she's going to be the one paying the bills, because you're opting out of the deal. Tell her that your parents -- her siblings -- would surely have done the same for her, if she was a wastrel.

[JMeganSnow]

I'm not sure where you live, but there are also ways out of unmanageable debt; your parents are not going to starve on the streets if you quit supporting them. Get them to some debt-counselling services or talk them into declaring bankruptcy if that's what it takes, but get rid of them.