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redfarmer

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I am employed at a retail store where I regularly have to deal with customers and coworkers who are not only completely irrational but overdemanding. In customer service oriented jobs, you are pretty much expected to take whatever the customer throws at you and not say anything in return. This makes me completely miserable and often makes me angry.

Changing jobs is not an option right now although I do wish to go to college eventually.

This creates a dilemna: many psychologists agree that tolerating behavior of this sort can affect one's self esteem. What do you feel is the moral way to approach this delimna without loosing my job?

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Explicitly identifying that it is the customer's problem and not your own is a good first step. If you make sure you understand that, it should not affect your self-esteem. It can certainly get annoying though, but I don't know that you have much choice other than to put up with it until you can get a new job. But maybe somebody else will have better advice.

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There was an essay or short book, I think by an Objectivist, regarding the question what is destroying customer service.

The top item on the list was the false principle that the customer is always right. I can't even imagine working under a mandate like that.

Have you considered other jobs for which you qualify.

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I am employed at a retail store where I regularly have to deal with customers and coworkers who are not only completely irrational but overdemanding. In customer service oriented jobs, you are pretty much expected to take whatever the customer throws at you and not say anything in return. This makes me completely miserable and often makes me angry.
Develop a sense of humor, it is easy to smile at a illrational, over demanding customer or coworker if you imagine them as a baby wareing a diaper, sucking their thumb while throwing a temper tantrum. Your only problem here would be not to laugh out loud. A illrational or over demanding person will lose steam fast when you just keep smiling (with a twinkle in your eye, because you are really laughing at them inside). I remember hearing a saying, "Smile, and they will wonder what you are up to".

Changing jobs is not an option right now although I do wish to go to college eventually.

While college is a worth goal, it is not the answer to every thing. I know many that have only had high school education or trade school that are doing fairly well for themselves. They knew what their limits were and what their interest were and went for them. And I know a few college graduates that have done nothing with that education, I think it depends on what courses you take.

You are the one with the power to direct your life, you must decide what your strengths and weakness are, and then set your self a reasonable goal to reach.

For example: I am 3/4ths deaf with damage to my middle ear so I can't do any jobs like being a nurse (can't hear out of that stephacope), or any job that requires balance, I'll never be a tightrope walker LOL. But I am a good artist, (even if they said in school that I had no aptitude for it and wouldn't allow me to take art class in school). I guess what I am trying to tell you is, don't let others define you. You know better then anyone what your strengths and weakness are, set you goals with in these boundaries and no one can bring you down, because you know yourself better then they do.

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"Develop a sense of humor, it is easy to smile at a illrational, over demanding customer or coworker ".

I remember my first job was at a farm. I was 15, and some tourist from New York City wanted a certain type of corn that wasnt due to be ready for a coupla weeks (that particular variety couldnt be planted when it was too cold) I remember she yelled at me and told me my boss shoulda planted it earlier.

HA!

Try renting the movie "Clerks"

Here's a great quote from it

"this job would be great if it wasnt for the fucking customers"

and another one I enjoy;

"shit or get off the pot"

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I remember my first job was at a farm. I was 15, and some tourist from New York City wanted a certain type of corn that wasnt due to be ready for a coupla weeks (that particular variety couldnt be planted when it was too cold) I remember she yelled at me and told me my boss shoulda planted it earlier.
She sounds like a good candidate for imagining her as a big baby, wearing a diaper, sucking her thumb and throwing a tantrum LOL. Talk about being unreasonable.

"this job would be great if it wasnt for the f__ing customers"

"shit or get off the pot"

Here is my great grandma's favorite sayings "Shit happens, don't wallow in it". "This life is your's to live, no one can demise you unless you let them."

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There was an essay or short book, I think by an Objectivist, regarding the question what is destroying customer service.
If you can remember the name, I would be very interested in reading it. Everytime a customer throws a tempor tantrum just because they can't have something their way, I think of James Taggart, who I pictured as a whiny cry baby.

The top item on the list was the false principle that the customer is always right.  I can't even imagine working under a mandate like that.

It's difficult to say the least. What makes it worse is that my company has developed a policy that we are to do whatever the customer wants, regardless of cost or consequenses, to please them. I believe this policy has cost my company thousands of dollars, even though they believe it's gaining them more business.

Looters.

Have you considered other jobs for which you qualify.

Right now I don't have many options. I dropped out of high school and am just now going back to get my GED. My dream is to be a movie director and writer, which I want to go to New York in 2005 to study for. Really, all that I am qualified for right now are simple service orientened jobs such as retail and fast food.

It's hard when you get up everyday hating your job because of the impossible conditions you're expected to work under.

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Develop a sense of humor, it is easy to smile at a illrational, over demanding customer or coworker if you imagine them as a baby wareing a diaper, sucking their thumb while throwing a temper tantrum.

Haha! That's probably the best advice I've been given thus far. It's funny because, as I said in a reply above, that's how I pictured James Taggart as I was reading Atlas Shrugged.

I guess part of my problem is that I gave the sanction of the victim a while back: everytime I start hating a job I assume that something is wrong with me and that it's something I should change. Well, I guess it's time to change that attitude.

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Everyone hates retail jobs. Clerks is a good movie to watch when you are in a bad mood. My favorite is when one of the guys spits water on a customer. When my wife would come home after working all night in a "mega" bookstore I'd always ask her if she spit water on anyone that night.

MY advice is do the best job you can and have a good work ethic. Don't take crap from anyone though.

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Everyone hates retail jobs.

I didn't.

I worked my way through high school and college at many jobs and one of them was as a salesgirl at Woolworths. The customers were often unreasonable and the management was unsupportive and short-sighted. I set it as a personal goal, in addition to earning my $1 an hour, to learn as much as I could there.

I kept my eyes open and my brain in gear. I learned a lot about good management and bad management by seeing what the boss did wrong. Many years later that came in handy when I was responsible for a department and 13 employees. I saw how a store operated and learned the jargon. That helped me land big software development contracts with retailers in New York City.

I agree with what Ellis Wyatt told Dagny about the people in the valley.

She smiled. "I know, this is a place where one employs nothing but aristocrats for the lousiest kinds of jobs."

"They're all aristocrats, that's true," said Wyatt, "because they know that there's no such thing as a lousy job—only lousy men who don't care to do it."

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I am employed at a retail store where I regularly have to deal with customers and coworkers who are not only completely irrational but overdemanding...This makes me completely miserable and often makes me angry...What do you feel is the moral way to approach this delimna without loosing my job?

I think the problem is that you are accepting the customer's negative attitude as an accurate assessment of your own performance/worth. A customer being upset does not mean you have to be upset as well. Sit back, take a deep breath, and let the tirade go in one ear and out the other. After the customer is finished with his/her tantrum, offer solutions/apologies in a calm, rational manner.

Reject the customer's irrational behavior entirely (this means in your own mind as well as outwardly). Instead, listen to the actual complaints/demands, NOT the manner in which they are delivered. What you are doing is allowing someone else to impose THEIR negative emotions onto YOUR mind. Remember, you are the one in control of what you accept as influence on your emotional state.

As far as your own peace of mind is concerned, someone else's irrational assessment of your work is unimportant. It is your own assessment that matters.

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It's difficult to say the least. What makes it worse is that my company has developed a policy that we are to do whatever the customer wants, regardless of cost or consequenses, to please them. I believe this policy has cost my company thousands of dollars, even though they believe it's gaining them more business.

Looters.

Actually, that is a very nice problem to have. Imagine working for a company that is plagued with ineptitude and the customers are upset about things that they have every rational reason in the world to be angry about and your employer has NOT empowered you to do what is necessary to satisfy the customers' legitimate concerns - or you find yourself in a position where promises that you make are never followed up on by those who are responsible for doing so.

You are probably correct in that your company's policy is costing them thousands of dollars. On the other hand, have you ever considered what it would cost the company to save those thousands of dollars? If a company doesn't satisfy customers, someone is going to have to spend time listening to them complain, often to more than one person in the company - and when you consider what it costs to recruit, hire, train, pay and retain someone to do that, it is not cheap. Disgruntled customers can also be costly in that they represent "word of mouth" advertising in reverse. If a person has a negative experience with a company, real or imagined, he is likely to tell everyone he knows who is willing to listen - and that can be very expensive to a company in the long run as a single disgruntled customer can easily cost a company several potential new customers in the months and years ahead. The other issue is the fact that it requires good judgment to know when it is profitable to "do whatever it takes" to save a customer and when it isn't. It is possible that the company doesn't feel that the majority of the people who are responsible for interacting with its customers are capable of making such a judgment and is not willing to spend extra to hire people who are - so it finds it more advantageous in the long run to always err on the side of the customer even when customers are wrong. There are almost always ways that a company can save money - but some of them would end up being "penny wise pound foolish" in the long run. I obviously have no idea about the specific situation with the company you work for, but those are a few possiblities you might want to consider.

My suggestion for dealing with situations where you feel your company's policies are not in its self-interest is to first recognize it is ultimately someone else's company and someone else's capital that is at stake. As a conscientious employee, if you feel you have an idea that could be of benefit to the organization, what you should do is pass it along through whatever formal channels they provide. As a rule, don't simply point out what is wrong - virtually anyone in the company with half a brain will be able to identify most of the problems it faces. What is much more difficult to find is someone who actually has a positive solution to those problems. Once you have passed your suggestion on - then let the matter drop secure in the knowledge that you have done the best you can. One of two things will happen: they will either implement your suggestion or they will chose to ignore it. If they ignore it then one of two things will be the case: Either your idea was good, in which case they are the ones who will end up paying the highest price for ignoring it or your idea did not take into consideration certain relevant facts of reality that you are not in a position to be aware of - in which case, they made the correct decision to ignore it. Unfortunately, in most cases, you will never know the reasons why they might ignore your ideas.

All you can do on any job is do your very best at those things which are in your control. As long as you work for somebody else, there will be all sorts of things which will be beyond your control yet can have a major impact on your job, your income and your advancement opportunities within the company. If you find the specific things which are beyond your control are more than you care to put up with, you should keep your eyes open for other opportunities. In the meanwhile, try to focus on those aspects of the job which are in your control and that you derive some level of value from.

As for having to deal with irrational people - all I can suggest is make it a learning experience. No matter what profession you go into, in today's world you will end up having to deal with such people and the earlier you learn the dos and don'ts the better. Echoing something Betsy said, a great deal of my education in management has come from observing the ineffectiveness of people I have worked for and asking myself "what would I do differently?"

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As for having to deal with irrational people - all I can suggest is make it a learning experience.  No matter what profession you go into, in today's world you will end up having to deal with such people and the earlier you learn the dos and don'ts the better.

As I have grown older I have achieved more control of the world that I live in. I had much less choice when I first started out, as to the environment in which I would work. Now, at a professional level, I am surrounded by people who are quite rational in their work, and therefore I find a great deal of rationality in my interactions with them. Dismuke is certainly correct that we will encounter irrationality in people throughout our lives, but I am suggesting to "redfarmer" that he try and hold onto the perspective that perhaps such encounters will lessen as he progresses in his career. No guarantee, but a distinct possibility.

Also, I have noticed that the young generally tend to take other's irrationality more personally than older folks do. As good people on good premises develop, they naturally gain a stronger sense of confidence in themselves, and generally feel more comfortable with their being. Being more confident tends to lessen the emotional response to irrationality; surety that the problem is with the other and not a reflection on oneself.

p.s. Dismuke, that lovely picture you use as your avatar is so familiar, but I cannot place it. Where is it from?

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p.s. Dismuke, that lovely picture you use as your avatar is so familiar, but I cannot place it. Where is it from?

The picture is called "Big City" and was painted by Robert LaDuke. I discovered it when I found it as one of a number of default avatars available for users of an architectural discussion board I occasionally post to. Only later did I learn the name of the painting. You can see other examples of his work at:

http://www.fine-art-prints-and-posters-for...bert-LaDuke.php I am pretty much indifferent to his more rustic themed efforts - but I am quite fond of his paintings of bridges and art deco skyscrapers.

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The picture is called "Big City" and was painted by Robert LaDuke.  I discovered it when I found it as one of a number of default avatars available for users of an architectural discussion board I occasionally post to.  Only later did I learn the name of the painting.  You can see other examples of his work at:

http://www.fine-art-prints-and-posters-for...bert-LaDuke.php  I am pretty much indifferent to his more rustic themed efforts - but I am quite fond of his paintings of bridges and art deco skyscrapers.

Yes, I like all of the art deco buildings I saw. Thanks.

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redfarmer: i know personally how annoying it can be when people decide to throw tantrums, without wanting to discuss it calmly. I face people like this frequently in college.

i remember a line by the author Harper Lee - "Delete the adjectives and you have the facts."

so if you can wade through all the bullshit that they are uttering and get to the root of the problem faster, it will be much more easier & better for you. And as dondigitalia said, don't take their crap as a reflection of your work, it isn't.

dinesh.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Red, your primary problem as I see it, is your unselfish ability, to allow others to take control of YOUR emotions...i.e. they are irrational, so you get angry.

During my time in the Navy. I attended several leadership management courses. I don't recall where this statement originated from, however, in one of them, I heard this statement.

I am para-phrasing.."Emotions are power, emotions are exclusively yours, allowing other to dictate your emotions, give them power over you"

When ever I was confronted with situations as you described. I always remembered that phase, and being the selfish person I am, refused to allow anyone to take control of ME. I am the only person that can make me angry, I have to allow it. Don't know if that helps, but it works for me, most of the time.

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Something I do is make notes on good and bad practices I encounter in my profession. Over the years, I have learnt a lot from these notes. Now and then, I have organized these notes into little "cheat sheets" for myself, creating my own private knowledge and methodology.

If you think you are in a situation that you do not like but is the "best of the worst" for now, then perhaps you can try to learn something from it. Suppose, you noted down each particularly negative or positive customer interaction in a format like this:

1) What happened?

2) What were the causes, major and minor?

3) What could the business have done for this bad situation not to have taken place [or for this positive situation to be the norm]?

4) On balance, what would be the cost/benefit to the business if the suggested steps were taken?

[The specific points are simply illustrative. You are the best one to decide on a format for your notes -- or not have a format at all.]

Hopefully, at the end of this retail experience you will have have an independent understanding of a very important aspect of business...applicable in a far wider context than simply in retail.

Hey! maybe you can write a book :) ... Though I kid, that's the way many such books are born. People don't like what they see in a particular field; they learn from their experiences, organize their knowledge into a book, and become the latest guru on the block.

["The Customer is Always Wrong" - by Red Farmer]

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... Hopefully, at the end of this retail experience you will have have an independent understanding of a very important aspect of business...applicable in a far wider context than simply in retail.

Hey! maybe you can write a book  :) ... Though I kid, that's the way many such books are born. People don't like what they see in a particular field; they learn from their experiences, organize their knowledge into a book, and become the latest guru on the block.

["The Customer is Always Wrong" - by Red Farmer]

Felicity, that was a great post.

A combination of practical advice and an optimistic spirit. I really like that.

Thanks!

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What kinds of things do the customers throw at you? Some examples would be interesting.

When I was a manager at a Wendy's fast food restaurant a few years ago, I had soft drinks thrown at me on two different occasions, and I think a box of french fries once. Some people take fast food damn seriously. :unsure:

(I should probably note that I did not have things thrown at me due to anything I did wrong, but just because some customers are completely nuts. :P )

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When I was a manager at a Wendy's fast food restaurant a few years ago, I had soft drinks thrown at me on two different occasions, and I think a box of french fries once.  Some people take fast food damn seriously.  :unsure:

(I should probably note that I did not have things thrown at me due to anything I did wrong, but just because some customers are completely nuts. :P )

I'd report such incidents to my supervisor and request hazardous duty pay. :P

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I'd report such incidents to my supervisor and request hazardous duty pay. :P

I was the supervisor on duty!

And besides, those kinds of hazards are all just part of the job, at least in today's cultural climate. :unsure:

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