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Worst Event In History

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Oh, and I think that the single worst "event" was the day that a man started preaching irrationality, and was taken seriously, which is probably way far back in our history.

Hm. I'd think that from early ages, superstition and irrationality were the norm and not the exception. It's not that man was rational and reasonable from the start and then fell from grace. All of what we call advanced knowledge and even the scientific method to reach it are rather young inventions in history.

I've borrowed a book with excerpts from philosophers from pre-Plato Greeks till today. And it's very hard to even understand what the guys before Plato wanted to say in the first place. I don't even recall what they were saying specifically, but I remember that it was a wild connection of random facts.

The amount of a decent scientific education among the masses is still lousy. So I'd say that even today preaching irrationality falls on very fertile ground.

There's much truth to the statement that the advancement of mankind happened due to the work of a select few.

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On another note, speaking of God, isn't He the most logical being? Just like the skyscrapers didn't build themselves; just like the RailRoads don't run themselves; how can you beleive that the world can run itself? how do you think the blood flows through your body and your heart beats with such perfect rhythm? how does the sun keep burning and the universe keeps revolving around stars? who do you think invented gravity? who invented friction? who invented heat? defying God is like defying existance! 'the day God was invented??' or did you mean 'the day God invented us?'

This is known as the "argument from design" defense of the existence of God. I reject this argument primarily because I hold existence, rather than consciousness (human or divine), as primary. I don't think that anyone invented gravity or friction, etc, because I think that those things are inherent in the nature of the universe--the nature of existence as such. Also, I think it is wrong to apply teleology (intentional or goal oriented behavior) to the universe as a whole. The universe is what it is, and not because any mind or minds made it that way--the function of a mind is to perceive, not to create, existence.

But I agree with you about the injustice in regards to sympathy for the terrorists. I hadn't considered what it must be like for children who live in New York City, to try and understand what happened. It's hard enough for me, as an adult, living halfway across the country, to deal with it. : (

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This is known as the "argument from design" defense of the existence of God. I reject this argument primarily because I hold existence, rather than consciousness (human or divine), as primary. I don't think that anyone invented gravity or friction, etc, because I think that those things are inherent in the nature of the universe--the nature of existence as such. Also, I think it is wrong to apply teleology (intentional or goal oriented behavior) to the universe as a whole. The universe is what it is, and not because any mind or minds made it that way--the function of a mind is to perceive, not to create, existence.

But I agree with you about the injustice in regards to sympathy for the terrorists. I hadn't considered what it must be like for children who live in New York City, to try and understand what happened. It's hard enough for me, as an adult, living halfway across the country, to deal with it. : (

Don't worry, most of us got over it. We opened new offices for our businesses in New Jersey, or someplace else in Manhattan, and went ahead with 'business as usual'. since 2001, real estate in NY climbed to the sky, and the economy is (I think) back to normal, or even better! (do you hear this, Terrorists? you can't destroy us!) We don't *suffer*, we have no time to whine. :lol: My son is 7 by now and is already dreaming of a bright future.

ifi you beleive that those things (gravity etc.) are inherent in the nature of the universe, doesn't it mean that you beleive that the world is ready for you to shape it? but who made it ready? where did alll that material (that we use to shape the earth with) come from? The Big Bang? who initiated that? why do we exist? how did it happen (our existance)?

what does teleology mean? - ok I will look it up in the dictionary....

My mind is trying to preceive existance. this is why I cannot beleive that our brain is just "a collection of chemicals" - when we think, when we listen to enjoyable music, when we are very happy, how does all this happen? the c'ollection of chemicals' change? what gives it meaning?

Edited by Marty McFly
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A theist is someone who believes in a god or gods. A desit is someone who believes in a creator of the universe, but usually doesn't believe that they interact with creation at all since creation.

And yes, Objectivism is an atheistic philosophy in that the existence of gods is not accepted and not really even given consideration.

ifi you beleive that those things (gravity etc.) are inherent in the nature of the universe, doesn't it mean that you beleive that the world is ready for you to shape it? but who made it ready? where did alll that material (that we use to shape the earth with) come from? The Big Bang? who initiated that? why do we exist? how did it happen (our existance)?

what does teleology mean? - ok I will look it up in the dictionary....

My mind is trying to preceive existance. this is why I cannot beleive that our brain is just "a collection of chemicals" - when we think, when we listen to enjoyable music, when we are very happy, how does all this happen? the c'ollection of chemicals' change? what gives it meaning?

You have a lot of questions. Why does it makes sense for you to answer them with God? Why must "someone" have created the universe? If everything needs a creator, then who created the creator and so on ad finitum? The universe just is, there is no why or creation, something can not come from nothing, nothingness can't even exist. There has always been something, and its existence is unconditional, there was no creator and there will be no destroyer.

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And yes, Objectivism is an atheistic philosophy in that the existence of gods is not accepted and not really even given consideration.

Yiks, I really beleive in objectivism... :lol: am I not allowed on the forum if I don't agree with this one concept? Is everyone here an atheist? wow... This philosophy doesn't really clash with God, I think.

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Not speaking as moderator, I'd say you are allowed to post here as long as you don't get rude and post a lot of stuff that is opposed to the fundamental tenets of Objectivism. It is pretty much a "requirement" that you be atheist if you are to be called an "Objectivist" because if you aren't you hold a primacy of consciousness view of metaphysics which is the opposite of the primacy of existence view at the base of Objectivist Metaphysics. Where Objectivism staes that "Existence is Identity; Consciousness is IDentification" a theist states "Consciousness is ominpotent; existence is whatever consciousness wants it to be."

This philosophy clashes with the idea of the supernatural, God, gods, unicorns included.

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