The Immorality Of A Commandment

[IAmMetaphysical]

Don't know where this should go seeing how it touches on so many different things philisophically, but I'll put it here, Mods put it somewhere else if need be.

Hannity and Colmes Interview

The scariest part is when she starts saying "Obey, obey...."

I hope these types of people don't gain power and influence.

Edited May 2, 2006 by IAmMetaphysical

[Qwertz]

The nice thing is that she's right. At least, within the confines of Christianity. WBC represents the perfect implementation of Christian principles. Out of 'love' for their fellow men, they seek to enlighten others about God's wrath. I love how she so consistently refers to God as "The Lord your God." Unlike moderate Christians, these whackos are actually willing to commit completely to their ideology. At least they're consistent.

-Q

[aleph_0]

I've noticed that, in religion, the more consistent you are the more insane--the more sane, the less consistent. With the possible exception of Judaism. My best friend follows the Torah to the letter and he's a very functional, rational person.

[BurgessLau]

My best friend follows the Torah to the letter and he's a very functional, rational person.

Exodus, Ch. 3, Verse 2: "And the angel of the Lord appeared to [Moses] in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush; and he looked, and lo, the bush was burning, yet it was not consumed."

So someone who "follows" this "to the letter" is "a very ... rational person"?

Exactly what do you mean by "rational"?

Edited May 2, 2006 by BurgessLau

[JMeganSnow]

Does Aleph possibly mean that his friend follows the "rules" as laid down in the Torah, such as "no pork" and "circumcise your male children?"

I know people that do this and present a facade of rationality because they have at least some reason why doing these things is important other than "the book says to do it". For instance, they're concerned about parasites present in pork. I think it's a bizarre pseudo-rationality: they recognize that reason is important, so they ape the mannerisms without tying it to a proper base.

[Felix]

It took me a long time to understand why you spend so much time thinking and debating about the wrongness of Christianity. But the more I learn about what's going on in the US, the more I realize that you live in an environment filled with Christian nutcases. This is something completely unknown where I come from. The fact alone that this woman got TV time . This would never happen in Germany (We have other wackos, I suppose, but from what I have seen, we have less of them, at least less of the hard cases on TV, except maybe in talk shows). You must really be getting pissed sometimes when you hear that stuff all the time.

[IAmMetaphysical]

But the more I learn about what's going on in the US, the more I realize that you live in an environment filled with Christian nutcases.

Lmao.

We do have a special breed of whacko over here.

[DavidOdden]

It took me a long time to understand why you spend so much time thinking and debating about the wrongness of Christianity.

Part of it is because Christianity is wrong, and as a bunch of philosophiles, we naturally tend to discuss philosophical issues such as right and wrong. But the developments of the past decade or so here have been scarey, I have to say. I vastly prefer the more wide-spread nominally religious trappings of Europe over the profoundly religionist deep beliefs -- and the legislative trappings that accompany these beliefs as you find in the US.

[Toolboxnj]

Honestly, I studied the Old Testament and the word "commandment" has been perverted today by Christian fundamentalists with agendas.

Historically, Moses was leading a heterogeneous group of tribes out of Egypt that conflicted with each other. Moses needed to lay ethical rules down to hedge the murder, theft and crime that was occuring between the contrasting tribes. So the "commandments" were created, however they were not obligations but were followed voluntarily to make the journey.

[Axil]

Honestly, I studied the Old Testament and the word "commandment" has been perverted today by Christian fundamentalists with agendas.

Historically, Moses was leading a heterogeneous group of tribes out of Egypt that conflicted with each other. Moses needed to lay ethical rules down to hedge the murder, theft and crime that was occuring between the contrasting tribes. So the "commandments" were created, however they were not obligations but were followed voluntarily to make the journey.

My (limited) understanding is in agreemenmt with what you have said and I would actually go one step further, in my mind the entire understanding of the "Law" ( the Commandments) has been distorted by Christianity causing the kind of moralising this nut was doing.

In my mind the "Law" was about the steps mankind needed to take to reach a godly life where the possibility of sin would not be realised and mankind would be free to live a good life, free of theft, murder, etc. Christians (at least most of the Protestant variety) hold the veiw that the Jewish religion is bound by a set of commands that God has forced upon them and need to be obeyed, for no real reason other that God's Will and Power. This belief ties into the further distortion of "Grace" - the idea that no action is needed to make one moral (or counted as part of Christ's Church) as Jesus has cancelled out the "Legalism" of the "Law". Another distortion here is the idea of sin - in Christianity it is a state that can only be cured by Grace (ironically allowing the believer to cintinue to sin but still be counted amongst the "Saved") whereas in Judaism it is only a potential allowing for the redemptive power of human action.

I see this causing a double problem in american christianity. On one hand more liberal groups stress the idea of Grace creating a valueless equelizer which does not demand any change (really) in the way one lives. This has allowed Christians to lie, cheat, steal, and murder knowing that "Salvation" covers them from punishment. Those who reject this then become forced into reviving the law as the source of reward and punishment - but distorted as the blind commands of law without its ethical function. Following the Law becomes much less about improving human lives and more about God's wrath.

Given this is my first post I should clarify I am not religious, the christian ideas of sin and grace however happen to be one of my biggest problems with the world, one that I see pleasantly absent in Judaism and, to a lesser extrent, Islam.

This post was edited numerous times in about fifteen mminutes to make it more intelligeble.

Edited June 6, 2006 by Axil