Evangelical movement growing in America?!

[Strangelove]

This Trailer (which makes me fear for the future of America) states that evangelical Christians make up 25% of America.

Is there anyone out there with more statistical proof of this? Perhaps with a break down of all the different factions of this ticking time bomb of a movement?

[softwareNerd]

This site has some info.

[Febod]

In The End of Faith, Sam Harris says that 22 percent of Americans think Jesus will return to earth in the next 50 years. Another 22 percent of Americans think will probably return in the next 50 years.

There is definitely a growing secular-religious schism in America.

(insert civil war 2 predictions here)

[Felix]

Jesus Camp Trailer

Very scary movie about Christian indoctrination aimed at little children.

(Mod's note: Merged two similar threads. -sN)

Edited September 3, 2006 by softwareNerd

[IAmMetaphysical]

Yes, the most frightening trailer ever. Scarier than JAWS.

[Qwertz]

"An admirably even-handed film." -Washington City Paper

Generally I don't like documentaries that insist upon being 'even-handed.' If we assume for a moment that this review is an accurate description of the truth, I think I would have difficulty with this one, simply because it probably refuses to draw a conclusion where one could so easily be drawn.

-Q

[tobyk100]

Wow!

The guys says "Who would give their lives to Jesus?" and all the kids jump up and shout.

Is the evangelical movement made more popular by the fact that people see it as a way to beat terrorists, on a moral front, because if so it would help them greatly to realize that the opposite of radical Islam is not radical Christianity, but reason.

[softwareNerd]

I'd be curious to see the results of a good survey that showed a good picture of what we're facing. The trend seems bad -- the secularization seems to have paused and reversed in the U.S.. It'd be interesting to understand the extent.

I suspect that the Christian right-wing owes some of its growth to the not-so-religious right that has formed a marriage of convenience with them in order to win elections. Without these more secular intellectuals, including the ex-Trotskyite neo-cons, the religious movements would appear much more like Pat Robertson kooks. I think this intellectual "cover" allows some people to join the right even though they do not really buy all of its religious agenda.

When I look at people around me, I find it difficult to believe that over 1 in 5 really thinks Jesus is coming back in the next 50 years. However, I realize that my own lack of empathy with extreme irrationality might be throwing me off guard to its presence in others. This definitely deserves further research.

[tommyedison]

Some statistics and information on the evangelicals (Link). The article says that there are over 60 million people who say that they are "born again" and experience a daily personal relationship with God.

More info - Link

There is definitely a growing secular-religious schism in America.

(insert civil war 2 predictions here)

I doubt that the left (which constitutes a large part of the secular group) will fight a war. It will most likely give in. The most likely scenario, barring a revolution of ideas, IMO is a theocracy instituted by vote.

Edited September 3, 2006 by tommyedison

[IAmMetaphysical]

...because if so it would help them greatly to realize that the opposite of radical Islam is not radical Christianity, but reason.

Well said sir!

[softwareNerd]

Here's a link to a 57-page PEW forum study that looks at various figures.

[JASKN]

Wow!

The guys says "Who would give their lives to Jesus?" and all the kids jump up and shout.

Is the evangelical movement made more popular by the fact that people see it as a way to beat terrorists, on a moral front, because if so it would help them greatly to realize that the opposite of radical Islam is not radical Christianity, but reason.

This is not their motivation. As far as I can tell, the adults who teach kids this kind of bullshit are concerned primarly with: avoiding the truth in the back of their minds, clinging to longstanding, blind beliefs, and impressing other people with their "morality."

I grew up in a less potent but similar environment as the one presented in that trailer. The adults at my church, which I attended at least twice and more often than not three or four times a week, laid it on thick, and for me it was very effective. They had the fun songs, they utilized guilt tactics, then they acted like it was cool to worship God. I was secluded from the outside world, and I believed all of it. Borderline cult.

Now as an adult, I can't understand how the adults from my childhood "bought" it. A while ago I stopped considering them completely, and even still, if the evangelical sect is growing, I will continue to ignore them because I do not think they are going to take over America. softwareNerd is probably right in that a lot of those included in the far right cannot be accurately described as "loony" Christians. I consider those people on the fence, and if or when it really came down to it they would side with reality. I hope. However, I know it took me several years of focused thinking to get out of the religious mindset, and one, I don't see people actively trying to do the same thing, and two, if everyone began tomorrow, a lot of the world would probably collapse out of despair, if it would be anything for them what it felt like for me.

[ian]

Is the evangelical movement made more popular by the fact that people see it as a way to beat terrorists, on a moral front, because if so it would help them greatly to realize that the opposite of radical Islam is not radical Christianity, but reason.

It's probably more of a response to modern culture than Islamists. At the start of the trailer she says "It's a sick old world." Modern society doesn't have much to offer in the way of values, and people need values.

In one sense it is a response to Islam, in that they see their Christian culture being destroyed by wave after wave of immigration. But it is not leaving a vacuum when it is destroyed, it is being replaced by worse: Islam.

[DarkWaters]

On this topic, I would like to highlight that Katherine Harris has won the Florida Republican Primary for United States Senator. As you guys know, she recently stated that the "separation of church and state is a lie" and pontificated that "electing non-christians is a sin."

Katherine Harris is an epitome of the modern Republican theocrat. If any of you guys can vote in Florida, I urge you to vote this November for Senator Bill Nelson and prevent another religious ideologue from attaining a senate seat.

[LaszloWalrus]

I'd be careful about throwing the word "theocrat" around. It is true that Harris is a threat, perhaps even a major one, to freedom. However, there have been far more religious candidates for high office who have been far more religious, and none have established a theocracy. William Jennings Bryant, for example, was highly religious. Similarly, religion has, declined, not increased over almost every time interval in American histroy. 100 years ago, abortions were illegal, there were great restrictions on free speech (Ulysses could not be published in the US for a while because of obscenity laws) and many business had to close on Sunday to respect the Sabbath.

Religious leftism, on the other hand, has grown considerably: the slew of environmental restrictions, the deference to multiculturalism, "tolerance," and so forth are, in my view, far greater threats than religion at this point. I know little about the Florida elections, but I wouldn't write off Harris for religion alone.

[DarkWaters]

I'd be careful about throwing the word "theocrat" around. It is true that Harris is a threat, perhaps even a major one, to freedom. However, there have been far more religious candidates for high office who have been far more religious, and none have established a theocracy. William Jennings Bryant, for example, was highly religious. Similarly, religion has, declined, not increased over almost every time interval in American histroy. 100 years ago, abortions were illegal, there were great restrictions on free speech (Ulysses could not be published in the US for a while because of obscenity laws) and many business had to close on Sunday to respect the Sabbath.

Religious leftism, on the other hand, has grown considerably: the slew of environmental restrictions, the deference to multiculturalism, "tolerance," and so forth are, in my view, far greater threats than religion at this point. I know little about the Florida elections, but I wouldn't write off Harris for religion alone.

I might have used theocrat a bit too freely there. I presently perceive the religious right as more dangerous, especially given the alarming number of stalwarts recently elected to Congress, the fervor over teaching Creationism in schools, the energized religious rallies to "save" Terri Schiavo and the like.

For another quick tidbit on Florida elections, guess who won the Democratic Primary for Florida District 15 seat in the U.S. House of Representatives? Why it is Dr. Bob Bowman from 9/11truth.org! You can read about his skepticism concerning the current explanation for what really happened almost five years ago proudly displayed on his campaign website here. This guy could very well have the most detrimental views of any Democrat running for a United States Representative seat throughout the entire country. Nevertheless, I do not perceive him to be as much of a threat as someone like Katherine Harris, since fortunately he does not seem to have much support amongst the general public at all. The individuals who truly love him seem to be the kind who forget to vote.

[softwareNerd]

The PEW study that I mentioned above explains that there are various groups that might be categorized as "evangelicals" as opposed "Mainline protestant". However, this categorization, in itself, does not correlate with party-affiliation and political views. Rather, within the evangelicals, mainline protestants, and catholics, the researchers asked some questions about beliefs and practices: e.g. some Christians don't think that a real devil exists, treating it more as a symbol; some do not believe in heaven and hell; some don't donate much to their church; some hardly attend church. Using the answers to these questions, the researchers classified members of the evangelist denomiations as "Traditional", "Centrist" and "Modern".

This classification shows a stronger correlation with party affiliation and political views. So, for instance, "Traditional Evangelists" as a group have views that are closer to "Traditional Mainline protestants" and "Traditional Catholics" when it comes to questions like: should abortion be banned. The bad news, is that when one adds up the various "traditionalist" groups, they come to about 26% of the U.S. population.

Understanding people's beliefs is more difficult that figuring out the sizes of various denominations. As a consequence data on long-term trends and changing beliefs seems harder to come by. So, it's tough to say if the traditionalists are growing, or if they have merely become more vocal about their beliefs. The common "cultural" issues that the traditionalists feel strongly about are:

• Ban abortion
  
• Ban Stem cell research
  
• Ban gay marriage
  
• Support School vouchers
  
• Fund faith-based groups
  
• Allow 10-commandments, manger-scenes, etc. in govt. place
  

Since the government has never recognized gay marriage and since many governments allowed religious displays without even giving much thought to them, these are issues on which the religious folk are fighting to preserve the status quo rather than to limit some existing freedom.

In areas that are new, like stem-cell research and the "morning after" pill religious groups have had a negative impact in a way that they probably would not have had a couple of decades ago. They definitely have to be fought on these issues.

On abortion, things are (de-jure) better than if one goes back (say) 50 years ago. However, the trend over the last couple of decades has been to move public opinion away from the "abortion on demand" idea, with more people (even non-religious people) thinking that there should be some restrictions: parental notification, spousal notification, no "partial birth" abortions. Also, in some states they have managed to make abortions more difficult. (Hopefully, they can be kept distracted with this issue -- fighting for every inch -- for another couple of decades.)

When it comes to a particular election (e.g. in the case of Katherine Harris) one is faced with the problem that all the options are usually rather unsatisfactory. One could have two Democrat front-runners who are a traditional-leftist and a nihilist, while the two Republican front-runners might be a religious-sympathizer and a Guliani/McCain type. One just has to choose the best of the worst, and sometimes the religious one might be the right answer!

[Actaeon2]

I suspect that the Christian right-wing owes some of its growth to the not-so-religious right...

Even more than that, I think the evangelicals owe their recent growth to the not-so-religious left.

The left has an almost unchallenged monopoly over the public school systems. One would expect them to be having a hay-day turning out little leftists, and to some extent, they are. But at the same time, the children who would choose to be moral rather than cynical need somewhere to turn. They need some code of ethics that will promise to make their lives happy. Where might that code come from? Certainly not the left.

The left has abandoned, not only traditional ethics, but ethics altogether. With the exception of a few environmentalist bromides, it's basically just a bunch of scepticism and nihilism.

But since a man must have a moral code for living his life, a lot of the better kids are going to turn to religion. Unless, of course, we get to them first.

[Lemuel]

This Trailer (which makes me fear for the future of America) states that evangelical Christians make up 25% of America.

Scary indeed.

Having spent my youth in and around the church, I've witnessed many of the techniques these camps use to indoctrinate children. I went to a several of these (gee thanks, Mom & Dad ...). Even then, before I rejected it all and became an Objectivist, it scared the daylights out of me.

There's so much pressure to conform. If you're on the outside even a little, the leaders of these events single you out and humiliate you in front of your peers. Some of the events are small, but many are enormous with thousands of attendees. I wanted nothing more than for it all to be over each time, and resented not being left alone when I didn't want to participate in their embarrassing activities.

It's just sick what these camps do.

[Toolboxnj]

Yes, the most frightening trailer ever. Scarier than JAWS.

Makes Europe seem palatable

[softwareNerd]

I came across a web-site called TheocracyWatch. They have a fair amount of information and references for anyone looking into the influence of religion on U.S. politics.

TheocracyWatch is a project of the Center for Religion, Ethics and Social Policy (CRESP) at Cornell University. CRESP is a nonsectarian, action-based educational organization with its roots in religious dialogue, human rights advocacy, and ethical thought.

[DarkWaters]

Another indicating factor of religion metastasizing into mainstream America is blindingly obvious: The Washington Post has added a separate section called On Faith, which is essentially a section of op-eds and blogs devoted to religion in America. Fortunately, not all of the panel seems to be in favor of turning the United States into a christian nation.

[Atlas51184]

Check out the Baylor survey on religion in America.

[Eurynomus]

I just watched Jesus Camp... It focuses around, well, you guessed it, a Jesus Camp. And the oh-so-lovable Ted Haggard makes an appearance, too.

If you have a few dollars to spend and you don't know which movie to rent (and you're up for a horror movie), I would suggest it. Even if this evangelical faction was a very small minority (which isn't the case, according to Haggard), the things they do to these children are borderline, if not actually, criminal. The lady who runs the bible camp was commenting on the Muslim children being trained at age 5 to die for Islam, and was saying something to the effect of, "We are instilling the same attitude in our kids, for our religion, because we're the right one".

Never having grown up in a religious househould, this movie was a shock. I am generally weary of any documentary such as this, so I am not yet sure what to make of the whole thing. But just to see even SOME of the things that go on day-to-day in these households is mind-boggling.

[softwareNerd]

...the things they do to these children are borderline, if not actually, criminal.

I reckon many of those kids are home-schooled and do not get much outside exposure; did the documentary indicate if this was the case?