How Do You Know When You Are In Love?

[RationalEgoistSG]

I recently began a relationship with a wonderful woman, a good friend of mine of 3 years. We know each other very well, and we are both Objectivists. The way I feel about her and our burgeoning relationship is like nothing I've ever felt before.

I've always been really cautious about becoming too emotionally invested in a relationship before its due. In this case however, this woman fits my standards so exactly that I can't help but feel that our relationship has very serious potential. She's unlike anyone that I've ever known and we are incredibly compatible. In other words, strong emotional feelings are definitely due.

It seems to me that it is prudent to date her for a given period of time before I think to myself that I love her. It makes sense to assume that you see a different side of a person in a relationship, and thus it is wise to get that additional context in mind before forming a judgment. But at the same time, I've been a close friend for 3 years, and I have a very good indication of her character and values as a result. A lot of the knowledge that I would need to gain in the context of a new relationship I already have from our prior friendship.

So I'm wondering, at what point does it make sense for a person to definitively know that they are in love? If I were to define romantic love as extreme admiration + physical intimacy, there's no question that I have that now. If this feeling of romantic love requires time in order to flower, then of course I do not have it, since the relationship is new. There's also the fact that there is always a certain giddiness about the beginning of a new relationship. However, I've experienced that feeling before, and what I'm feeling now is substantially different.

This is obviously very personal information, but I am genuninely interested in the question as such, and do not mind sharing it given how important the potential answer is to me.

[IAmMetaphysical]

I don't like your assumption that too invest emotion in someone is a bad and follish thing to do. SO what if she dumps you? Why does loving someone have to suck unless the relationship goes somewhere. Love is a response to values. The values are there in her, and you have responded.

[intellectualammo]

If this feeling of romantic love requires time in order to flower, then of course I do not have it, since the relationship is new.

In logic, if I remember correctly, you would call the above sentence a conditional. Let's check the premises.

I think that the following quote from Sense and Sensibility by Jane Austen will help with this. Marianne says:

"It is not time or opportunity that is to determine intimacy;- it is by disposition alone. Seven years would be insufficient to make some people acquinted with each other, and seven days are more than enough for others." (p.55)

I myself throw both time and titles out the window initially. I go by values/disposition alone.

[RSalar]

"So I'm wondering, at what point does it make sense for a person to definitively know that they are in love? "

Wouldn't it make sense to know that you are definately in love as soon as possible? My question is: Can you be in love and NOT know it?

I have also noticed that I used to fall in love very easily, now as I appoach 50 it takes a lot before I "fall."

[JMeganSnow]

It seems to me that it is prudent to date her for a given period of time before I think to myself that I love her.

This would entail refusing to introspect and identify your own internal mental state . . . in other words, a pointless exercise unless you're trying to turn yourself into a neurotic. What is prudent is to reserve acting upon your emotions until you are certain they embrace all the context of your situation. Otherwise, why does it matter whether you've been dating for one day or ten years? It's the accuracy of your evaluation that's in question, not the length of time you've been making it.

The question of time only comes up because most people are not fully consistent or integrated in their character. If you meet someone that is, you know everything (important) there is to know about them in the space of a few hours. With other people, it's necessary to see them in a broad variety of situations so that you can discover their weird quirks and eccentricities . . . and thus discover whether they are of the type that really bothers you.

Personally, I try too hard to put up with people's inconsistencies of character, telling myself it's worth putting up with their bullsh*t so that I can enjoy their good qualities, and usually I find that the bull becomes all-encompassing and their good qualities rapidly fade.

[Ifat Glassman]

RationalEgoistSG, not sure if you would like to go into more intimate details here in the forum, but my question is: Why did you ask this question ("How do you know when you are in love")?

Are you afraid you don't know what love is? Are you afraid that what you are feeling for this woman is not the best you can get, emotionally speaking?

It seems to me like you think that love is generated by conscious choice, which is not true: Emotions come from your subconscious.

[RationalEgoistSG]

Thank you all for your responses!

I don't like your assumption that too invest emotion in someone is a bad and follish thing to do. SO what if she dumps you? Why does loving someone have to suck unless the relationship goes somewhere. Love is a response to values. The values are there in her, and you have responded.

Fear of eventual rejection was not exactly what I was getting at. My fear was that my pleasant emotions were being triggered for the wrong reasons. For example, a person may mistakenly value escape from reality, and thus respond positively to drugs that severely alter their consciousness. The important question to be asked in regards to romantic feelings for another person therefore is: are the emotions the result of good values or not?

I think that the following quote from Sense and Sensibility by Jane Austen will help with this. Marianne says:

"It is not time or opportunity that is to determine intimacy;- it is by disposition alone. Seven years would be insufficient to make some people acquinted with each other, and seven days are more than enough for others." (p.55)

Thank you for that quote. I think it fits perfectly with the present circumstance, and I agree wholeheartedly.

Wouldn't it make sense to know that you are definately in love as soon as possible? My question is: Can you be in love and NOT know it?

Yes, of course it would make sense to want to know this as soon as possible. And if one is sufficiently introspective, I think it would be very difficult to be in love and not actually know it. I think the real issue is whether a person is in love for the right reasons or not. I am very confident that I feel the way that I do for the right reasons however, so this still doesn't quite get to the real issue.

This would entail refusing to introspect and identify your own internal mental state . . . in other words, a pointless exercise unless you're trying to turn yourself into a neurotic. What is prudent is to reserve acting upon your emotions until you are certain they embrace all the context of your situation. Otherwise, why does it matter whether you've been dating for one day or ten years? It's the accuracy of your evaluation that's in question, not the length of time you've been making it.

The question of time only comes up because most people are not fully consistent or integrated in their character. If you meet someone that is, you know everything (important) there is to know about them in the space of a few hours. With other people, it's necessary to see them in a broad variety of situations so that you can discover their weird quirks and eccentricities . . . and thus discover whether they are of the type that really bothers you.

Thank you for this! I think this gets straight to what I'm thinking about. I'm also fully convinced by your point. My initial concern was about the accuracy of my evaluation, and I mistakenly assumed that adding more time would necessarily improve the accuracy of that evaluation. I suppose that to an extent this is true, but it is not necessarily true.

Also, being an Objectivist, she is incredibly open, honest, and self-disciplined, so there I have very little concern that there is some other side to her character that I have yet to discover.

RationalEgoistSG, not sure if you would like to go into more intimate details here in the forum, but my question is: Why did you ask this question ("How do you know when you are in love")?

Are you afraid you don't know what love is? Are you afraid that what you are feeling for this woman is not the best you can get, emotionally speaking?

It seems to me like you think that love is generated by conscious choice, which is not true: Emotions come from your subconscious.

I asked the question for very personal reasons obviously, because I want to know if I am in love. What exactly is love as opposed to mere infatuation? What makes love a qualitatively different emotion? Does it require an extend period of time to develop, or can it be immediate? Does it grow in intensity over time?

Love is of course not generated by conscious choice, but the values that program what we do love are. It is certainly possible to feel a profoundly strong emotion, such as love, but for the wrong reasons. So I suppose that a better title for this post would be: What Is Love? and How Does One Know If It Is Based on Proper Values?

After thinking about everything, I am fairly confident that my powerful emotional response is based entirely on proper values. In other words, my initial question has pretty much been answered. I am still interested in some subsidiary questions that arise as a result however, like what makes love qualitatively different than other positive emotions, as well as the other questions that I asked in my response to the posters. Thanks!

[Febod]

I am still interested in some subsidiary questions that arise as a result however, like what makes love qualitatively different than other positive emotions...?

Yeah dude, you and everyone else wants to know that one.

I highly recommend you don't jump into this one too soon. As you stated, but you don't seem to attach that much weight to, girls can change a lot when thrown into a romantic context. They can do a complete 180 from friendship, so be careful.

I suggest putting of any relationship/love/girlfriend feelings for at least 3-4 months. This will allow you to take in the situation as well as possible, without the weight of a judgment crowded by other emotions.

Also, i checked your profile, and it seems you're only 22. I will refer you to the motley crue song, "Too Young to Fall in Love"

[Maarten]

Also, i checked your profile, and it seems you're only 22. I will refer you to the motley crue song, "Too Young to Fall in Love"

When is it proper to fall in love, then? I don't see very well how love has anything to do with age. I would say that an important factor is that both people are in a similar phase of their lives, but other than that I think it is perfectly possible to find your wife at the age of 20. Whether you can judge this person correctly isn't so much a factor of age as it is whether you are committed to judging them exactly for what they are, and not what you want them to be.

[Groovenstein]

Yeah dude, you and everyone else wants to know that one.

. . .

Also, i checked your profile, and it seems you're only 22. I will refer you to the motley crue song, "Too Young to Fall in Love"

These two statements come across as highly demeaning.

The first adds little of substance, leaving me with only the implication that the issue raised was stupid (which it was not).

The second is just plain silly. You make a sweeping generalization about 22-year-olds, and your "argument" consists of a song reference. I started law school at 21. Was I too young for that? Some might say it's harder than their relationships.

[JASKN]

I don't think Febod was demeaning with his "Yeah dude" statement. I read it as empathetic. Also, someone else used literature to get a point across, which may have even prompted Febod to go a similar route with his song reference. I see no problem with that.

However, I agree that a person's age is not important with regard to falling in love. What evidence would suggest otherwise, Febod?

Also, I agree that people can change, sometimes drastically, upon entering a romantic relationship. However, it sounds like RationalEgoistSG has had enough time to judge if that has happened or is going to happen. I've noticed that it happens early on in a relationship (outside of a traumatic event).

Concerning your ability to judge whether your love is based on the right reasons or not, RationalEgoistSG, I think the only way that can be determined is by judging the rest of your life and values honestly for yourself. Since you have done that, I think you are on the right track.

About qualifying love, I think that is a scientific matter, outside of judging it for yourself based on personal experience and the personal experience of other people, which is a long way from being answered. Ask around, as you are on this site, for some different perspectives on other individuals' experience with love, and love over extended periods of time. In my opinion, as of yet that is the best way to gain answers about the qualities of love as an emotion.

In my experience, Ayn Rand's notion that love is an incredibly strong emotional response to the recognition of another person's values that are similar to (or "a reflection of") your own is correct. Even if those values are corrupt or mistaken.

Edited September 13, 2006 by JASKN

[Febod]

When is it proper to fall in love, then?

It's proper to fall in love when you're not on a forum asking total strangers about your personal scenario. Questions about dating and relationships in general are fine, but there's no way anyone can provide real answers to this one, except rational egoist.

Besides, if rational egoist really is in love (and it seems he is), then there's nothing anyone could do to talk him out of it anyway, except father time, or a motley crue-induced brainwashing session.

[RationalEgoistSG]

Concerning your ability to judge whether your love is based on the right reasons or not, RationalEgoistSG, I think the only way that can be determined is by judging the rest of your life and values honestly for yourself. Since you have done that, I think you are on the right track....

In my experience, Ayn Rand's notion that love is an incredibly strong emotional response to the recognition of another person's values that are similar to (or "a reflection of") your own is correct. Even if those values are corrupt or mistaken.

Yes this seems right. Ultimately I am the only one that can answer this question, and I would never suppose that a post on an internet forum would answer it for me. I'm fairly certain of my own answer, I was just curious about what other people thought on the subject of love, specifically in regards to what standards one would judge the intensity and validity of the emotions one was feeling. (To clarify, I do not mean to imply that some emotions are valid and others not, I mean that some emotions are responding to poor values, others good.)

[JMeganSnow]

I would say that an important factor is that both people are in a similar phase of their lives . . .

LoL

(As an aside I would like to point out that this is a potential side effect of a conversation I had with Maarten some time ago--not that the workings of his mind are in any way dependant upon my occasionally useful insights, supposing for the moment that these actually exist--regarding the fact that having a romantic relationship with a man that is 3-5 years older is somewhat ideal for women in what I might consider the "median" situation . . . I also named the phases of life roughly as Dependant, Struggling, Working, and Settled. Anyway.)

If I might be so bold, I would describe infatuation as an emotional reaction to your own situation, whereas love is an emotional reaction to another person. In my experience, infatuation happens when you are lonely or seeking or mad or even extraordinarily pleased with the world and so you project this reaction onto another person, for whatever reason, seeing them temporarily in a rosy glow because they provide a sort of ballast or aid to your current emotional state. It doesn't last for two reasons: your emotional state will probably change and you're probably not seeing the person accurately, since you are projecting.

When you love someone, however, you love them, so the vagaries of your personal emotional state/circumstances mean absolutely diddly.

This is not to say that infatuation can't turn into love, but I would regard this more as being a happy accident than anything else.

[Maarten]

Hehe, yeah. I think I should mention that it was your insight that I shamelessly stole I figured that there was a lot of truth in it, so may as well use it

[IAmMetaphysical]

Fear of eventual rejection was not exactly what I was getting at. My fear was that my pleasant emotions were being triggered for the wrong reasons. For example, a person may mistakenly value escape from reality, and thus respond positively to drugs that severely alter their consciousness. The important question to be asked in regards to romantic feelings for another person therefore is: are the emotions the result of good values or not?

Oh, my bad.

[RationalEgoistSG]

JMeganSnow,

Well put. Thanks!