Pope speaks on the nature of Islam

[The Wrath]

http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=17460

Forget for a moment that this is from the leader of Catholocism, and just enjoy the comment that he made. It's refreshing to see such a powerful man being willing to speak the truth about Islam...even if it is the Pope, and even if Christianity forms the basis of his criticism. I'd rather live in a world full of modern Christians than a world full of modern Muslims.

[Liriodendron Tulipifera]

Unforunately, this is the same pope that speaks out against "scientific rationalism."

The pope likely speaks out against Islam because he sees it as competetive with his own efforts to spread Christianity around the world. Indeed, he just lambasted European churches not doing more evangelism. Consider the following statements:

“People in Africa and Asia admire our scientific and technical prowess, but at the same time they are frightened by a form of rationality that totally excludes God from man’s vision,” he said.

Why does he mention Africa and Asia?? Because these are areas of the world where Islam is spreading like wildfire, and if Christianity is to succeed, it must forge ahead in those regions.

“They do not see the real threat to their identity in the Christian faith,” he said, “but in the contempt for God and the cynicism that considers mockery of the sacred to be an exercise of freedom and that holds up utility as the supreme moral criterion for the future of scientific research.”

He's speaking of the West there. Of course, the Pope did not offer what should instead be the criterion for scientific research. The message is: don't pursue any line of research, no matter the potential benefits, if it contradicts church teachings. Pat Robertson also speaks of the evil of Islam. Unfortunately, his comments are counterbalanced by his speeches about the evils of America, too.

I would rather live in a world full of modern Christians than modern Muslims, also. But the pope is merely the 'lesser' of two religious evils.

[The Wrath]

My point is that he holds a lot of sway over a lot of people. If speeches like this one can help turn the tide against radical Islam, then I hope he gives a lot more of them. In the best of all worlds, it would be secular atheists making speeches against Islam. Unfortunately, any secularist with a reasonable amount of influence usually ends up being nothing more than an apologist for terrorism.

[The Wrath]

Oh those crazy Muslims. They're at it again. They're protesting, they're burning things, and it's looking like this could turn into another Danish cartoon situation. How long before someone is killed or a building is burned down? How long before the Vatican issues a full-fledged apology, describing Islam as a religion of peace?

[Liriodendron Tulipifera]

Don't you understand, Moose? Their feelings are hurt. They have every right to riot and kill people and wage jihad. Freedom of speech is terrorism!

This is what Muslims are so upset about. (There's a link to the text of the speech at the bottom of the page.) It's always nice to see things in their original context. The speech contains lots of silly ideas (I only skimmed it), and the quote being ascribed to the pope isn't even his own. Are these people throwing grenades over a centuries old quote looking for an excuse or what?

I read a funny article from the Turkish Press quoting some Muslim religious leader who said that said the pope's words will only inflame Muslims and make them want to wage jihad - that the time preceding Ramadan was traditionally a time of conquering ones' enemies... hm. Doesn't that prove the point?

[The Wrath]

Yeah, it's actually kind of humorous, in a dark humor sort of way.

Muslim 1: Oh Allah! Our prophet has been insulted! They say that he was a murderer and that Islam is a religion of violence!

Muslim 2: How can we convince them that we are peaceful?

Muslim 3: JIHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[skap35]

Unfortunately the Pope issued an official apology this morning. This is very disappointing to me because I thought for a short time that someone was actually willing to stand up to this violent religion.

The thing that gets me *really* mad about his apology is this: Catholic leader quotes a text that refers to Islam as evil. He didn't even claim it to be his own opinion! So in reaction the Islamic world burns effigies of the Pope and firebombs non-Catholic churches. umm, doesn't that validate the Pope's quote? And Muslims say that his apology isn't enough! So according to Muslims not only can you not make obvious observations about Islam, you can't even quote anyone who says that.

*sigh* it looks like I can safely dismiss the Pope as yet another Islamic appeaser. Oh well, at least his statement was nice while it lasted.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14871562/

Edited September 17, 2006 by skap35

[The Wrath]

Yeah, I actually expected him to make a stand

[DarkWaters]

I would have preferred that the Panzerkardinal not apologize for quoting someone else's remarks that correctly equated Islam with violence and instead apologize for his remarks that amounted to "Turkey should not allowed to enter the European Union because they are a Muslim State founded on Muslims roots." While Turkey has some problems with dealing with honor killings and the government makes great lengths to deny any wrongdoing to the Armenian peoples around World War I, they are generally a secular nation that has made respectable progress and should certainly not be categorized as "one of those Muslim states."

[gags]

Apparently the pope is now a tool of the Zionists and the Americans (according to the Iranians):

"The reality is that if we do not consider Pope Benedict XVI to be ignorant of Islam, then his remarks against Islam are a dictat that the Zionists and the Americans have written (for him) and have submitted to him."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060917/wl_mi...ss_060917085717

[hunterrose]

The pope likely speaks out against Islam because he sees it as competetive with his own efforts to spread Christianity around the world.

Agreed.

Instead of calling it a "war on Islamic fundamentalism" it should be called a war on religious fundamentalism

I would have preferred that the Panzerkardinal ...instead apologize for his remarks that amounted to "Turkey should not allowed to enter the European Union because they are a Muslim State founded on Muslims roots."

Interesting, I hadn't heard this before. Was this from the same speech as the "Mohammed brought nothing new other than evil" one? or from some other occasion?

At any rate, I'd agree with you; it does sound a stupid thing to imply.

[IAmMetaphysical]

The funny thing is watching an infallible man apologize for something.

[DarkWaters]

Interesting, I hadn't heard this before. Was this from the same speech as the "Mohammed brought nothing new other than evil" one? or from some other occasion?

At any rate, I'd agree with you; it does sound a stupid thing to imply.

He made these comments sometime around April of 2005, when he was still a Cardinal. Here is an excerpt:

The roots that have formed Europe, that have permitted the formation of this continent, are those of Christianity. Turkey has always represented another continent, in permanent contrast with Europe. There were the [old Ottoman Empire]wars against the Byzantine Empire, the fall of Constantinople, the Balkan wars, and the threat against Vienna and Austria. It would be an error to equate the two continents...Turkey is founded upon Islam...Thus the entry of Turkey into the EU would be anti-historical.

[The Wrath]

Isn't every new development "anti-historical?"

[DarkWaters]

Isn't every new development "anti-historical?"

Absolutely! This is why the all of the Popes in history have essentially been opposed to every major development: the theory of a heliocentric universe, the theory of evolution, medicinal cloning, innovations in contraception, and so forth.

[Olex]

Isn't it time to change the title of this thread, since Pope did not show any guts as it turned out, but backed away?

[DarkWaters]

This just keeps on getting worse. The Pope has just praised a slain nun, who with her last dying breathe pardoned her attackers. The nun was assaulted and killed by Muslim fanatics who are evidently still upset over the Pope's remarks that linked Islam and violence. This is such a reckless disregard for human life.