Double Major in One Year

[Febod]

So, you are saying, degree is not really good, but doing something with your education is good. Something is not clear here. What do you mean by 'education' at the end there?

A degree is good only in certain contexts. If you need a degree to do what you want, then it is good. If you don't, then it's not that good. Either way, it's just a small piece of the puzzle and not very importance. Getting money for college is harder than getting a degree.

What does 'get a life' mean in this context?

Get a life means stop placing importance on things because other people place importance on them, like a college degree, or listening to your mother.

How is it different? Because midterm was not created by him, and thus wasn't his creation/choice, and therefore not worth of pursueing?

Right, taking a midterm is less important than forging your own existence.

What does this skill set contain? I presume this is something Roark could not have had, as he didn't date much if at all, am I correct?

There are many skills that are good to learn when it comes to dating. I'm no expert, but here are some that come to mind:

-realizing that relationships aren't like roark and dominique's

-learning what you want from a relationship

-learning about relationship dynamics

Edited September 26, 2006 by Febod

[RationalBiker]

Right, i don't know the guy so i don't make judgments about him personally.

You said,

I think this guy needs a girlfriend.

Your statement was not a generality, it was directed specifically at him and his situation. It was personally judging him.

Getting a college degree is far from a virtue, because all it boils down to is doing what other people tell you to do.

I seriously doubt anyone was telling him to take 37 credits in one semester. Instead, I would think it's more likely people were telling him not to, or that he couldn't do it.

Not that getting good grades is necessarily a bad thing, but if you put real stock into it, then i feel sorry for you.

I think the error in your thinking is that even though getting good grades is simply a means to a larger goal, that it does not represent an accomplishment in and of itself. And personally, whatever stock one puts into getting good grades, I'm fairly certain your sympathy is irrelevant.

And it's not the fact that he "got a degree" that is praiseworthy, it's the manner in which he got the degree that is praiseworthy.

I just graduated and so everybody says "congratulations" to me and i think, "thanks, but i really haven't done anything yet."

Why waste your time in school if you didn't do anything there? You should have been doing something more productive with your time. It's really pathetic to be going through the motions of doing what other people tell you to do when you think you really aren't accomplishing anything. Now you have my (irrelevant) sympathy.

I was using the mom thing as an analogy to express the relative insignificance of a college education when compared to leading a productive, happy life.

The significance of a college education to leading a productive, happy life depends on what one seeks to do to make his life productive and happy. I certainly hope that C and D average students aren't walking right out of high school into nuclear engineering jobs. True, getting that nuclear engineering degree beforehand really won't make much difference, but it's nice to see people go along with the facade just in case. And doctors, man do they waste time in school. Truth be told, if I ever have to go under the knife again, I want the guy who finished dead last in med school because he was great at cruisin' chicks.

[Ifat Glassman]

Febod, I'm just curious to know something:

Would you consider a guy who spends his Saturday nights in front of the computer, reading articles about the latest scientific innovations, and his nights reading History books, to be in need of "a life"?

[JASKN]

RationalBiker, there are certainly professions, such as medicine, law, or science, where the smartest course of action for almost anyone is to first go through a university program for some preliminary knowledge before entering the respective profession.

However, I would say at least two-thirds and probably three-fourths of students attending university are almost completely wasting their time, or pursuing their interests in an extremely unproductive way, because little of significance is taught, nor is it taught in the right way. In fact, I won't take some subjects in school because I don't want to have to unlearn them before I can relearn later, through my own study. The piece of paper is good for nothing but to support the facade; employers, for no good reasons, place stock in these useless degrees.

[RationalBiker]

However, I would say at least two-thirds and probably three-fourths of students attending university are almost completely wasting their time,

Okay, your anecdotal evidence is noted. However, it's applicability to the context under discussion is highly questionable.

Edit - changed "empirical" to "anecdotal" - RB

Edited September 26, 2006 by RationalBiker

[JASKN]

However, it's applicability to the context under discussion is highly questionable.

Yes, I definitely agree with that. I was thoroughly impressed by Mr. Bahn, not for his ability to earn a degree, but because it seems he made the absolute most out of his situations.

[softwareNerd]

Febod, As long as we're using average probabilities to guess at intentions, chances are that this guys mom and most of his peers were telling him (even if in not so many words) to be more average. "Go out an play some sports!" they often said, while they confided to others, "It's kind of odd that he's so passionate about Physics, and ignores the girls". So, as long as we're guessing, it's logical to assume that this guy is not an average crowd-follower.

Actually, I happen to know a kid who is probably just as competent as this guy, who wanted to be an engineer since he was 11 (maybe younger), who's favorite channel was the Discovery channel, and who's parents often worried that he was not average. He ended up with a near-full scholarship at one of the nations best engineering schools. He has friends and a decent social life; but, it's decent by his standards, maybe not by the standards of the bulk of his peers.

Your reaction was a prototypically contemporary one, one that is probably shared by the majority of the guy's peers.

[Febod]

My understanding of a happy social life is that it is only possible if you first have a happy life, which would mean among other things a happy career.

I agree, which is why i said that a career is more important than girls.

True, getting that nuclear engineering degree beforehand really won't make much difference, but it's nice to see people go along with the facade just in case. And doctors, man do they waste time in school. Truth be told, if I ever have to go under the knife again, I want the guy who finished dead last in med school because he was great at cruisin' chicks.

Right, i think much of the schoolwork in college is just to prove to others that you can do work. And why are cruising for chicks and studying always at odds? I want the surgeon who, because he's satisfied several areas of his life, loves himself to the fullest.

Febod, I'm just curious to know something:

Would you consider a guy who spends his Saturday nights in front of the computer, reading articles about the latest scientific innovations, and his nights reading History books, to be in need of "a life"?

Well, being a guy who spends saturday nights reading philosophy books, i should say no. But if i spent saturday nights reading philosophy books and if i haven't been on a date in six months, then i wouldn't have a life i.e. a complete life.

Febod, As long as we're using average probabilities to guess at intentions, chances are that this guys mom and most of his peers were telling him (even if in not so many words) to be more average. "Go out an play some sports!" they often said, while they confided to others, "It's kind of odd that he's so passionate about Physics, and ignores the girls". So, as long as we're guessing, it's logical to assume that this guy is not an average crowd-follower.

Your reaction was a prototypically contemporary one, one that is probably shared by the majority of the guy's peers.

Okay, maybe the mom analogy wasn't the greatest... my bad.

I'm not saying this guy isn't going against the grain. But going against the grain isn't always good. A 40-year-old man who has never connected with a woman or another person is probably a little confused, and not living a full life. (again, not that bahn hasn't done this, i don't know... whatever)

And no, a prototypical contemporary reaction would be to say that value isn't found in the self, only other people, so go out and party because an exaggerated passion for career is abnormal and selfish.

[RationalBiker]

And why are cruising for chicks and studying always at odds?

I never said "always". However, in Mr. Bahn's case, considering his goal, they would have been seriously at odds.

But if i spent saturday nights reading philosophy books and if i haven't been on a date in six months, then i wouldn't have a life i.e. a complete life.

Which may well be a great judgment for you considering to your goals and values. But to judge the completeness of Mr. Bahn's life based on your personal context is unfair and probably hghly inaccurate. Also, the Washington Post article indicates that he did not entirely abandon a social life or outside interests while in high school;

Meanwhile, he had mastered bridge -- yes, the card game -- competed in tournaments all over and ran the school club, which doubled in size.

So the man takes a year out of his life to really knuckle down and excel academically. It appears to have served his larger, more important goals quite well. He deserves admiration for his accomplishment.

And from a practical point of view, if he chooses, Mr. Bahn can decide to pursue career options three years earlier than the rest of (or bulk of) his fellow class mates. He can also devote more to pursuing social interests as well.

[JASKN]

He may have a hard time finding peers to relate to intellectually, however.

[Groovenstein]

Not that getting good grades is necessarily a bad thing, but if you put real stock into it, then i feel sorry for you.

At my law school, only the top 10% GPAs get invited to be on the law review. Only the top 20% get invited to the Moot Court team. Call a law school Career Services office, and ask them to show you some of their on-campus interviews. Most of the firms that I've seen have class rank requirements.

Say what you want, but at least in law school and the legal job hunt, grades matter.

[LaszloWalrus]

To get into a decent graduate school in philosophy (which is one of the most effective ways to get a good job teaching philosophy) it is necessary to

1) Go to one of the very best undergraduate programs

and

2) Get very good grades

Grades are not an end in themselves, but getting good grades (especially in math/science) is an achievement in and of itself, and grades are often necessary for a given career.

[Toolboxnj]

The thing is, just because you can pass an AP test with a 3 or 4 doesn't mean you have university-level knowledge on the subject. It just means that you got a 3 or 4 on a test.

[JASKN]

Also, just because you took a university class on a subject and passed doesn't mean that you have university level-knowledge on the subject, either.

[DavidOdden]

Also, just because you took a university class on a subject and passed doesn't mean that you have university level-knowledge on the subject, either.

In fact, just because you teach a university class on a subject doesn't mean that you have university level-knowledge of the subject, either.

[LaszloWalrus]

The thing is, just because you can pass an AP test with a 3 or 4 doesn't mean you have university-level knowledge on the subject. It just means that you got a 3 or 4 on a test.

Most universities at the level of UVA would not accept a 3. Getting a 4 or 5 can be quite easy in some subjects, but quite difficult in others depending on the general quality of other students takinga particular AP test.