mordecai Posted May 6, 2004 Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 I was surprised to discover a band from the country of Ragnar Danneskjold, and also my homecountry, Norway who seem to be heavily influenced by Objectivism. Their lyrics convey a specific objectivist message and they even make numerous references to Ayn Rands litterature. The bands name is Spiral Architect Here is a excerpt from their homepage: "Spiral Architect is about continual development, idealism, and intensity. Spiral Architect is controlled anarchy. The aim is to make music that challenges the listener, as well as pushes the abilities of the musicians and man. " They even made a song called "Fountainhead": Fountainhead [Music: Norberg, Gornitzka, Gundersen, Mickelson] [Lyrics: Gornitzka] Crave for no more, nor the self that would Not even that which always is there Needy of naught, but to be constrained From any care and want of a selfish urge What is needed save strengthened will of man Fulfilment of all that is latent within What is to fear, what do they hate? How can they even bear to look at themselves Those who love to crawl? Near breaking point From the bows you've made Towards the constructed Deity's power Reverence due, not to unseen mights nor lack of clarity, but to the well-known, familiar ever present miracle of the I, Fountainhead of... progress How can anyone with serious integrity abandon all that's left for me and still be free to seek what's real? Where's the logic thought, the one thing that should be guide our way throughout this solitary state that we call life? Where's the I, Fountainhead of progress? Truly inspiring lyrics. Here is a link to their homepage where you can also hear some soundclips from their album A Sceptic's Universe http://www.spiralarchitect.com/ To read their lyrics you can go here: http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/spiralarc...csuniverse.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RationalBiker Posted May 6, 2004 Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 Controlled anarchy? That's a self-contradicting concept. VES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPW Posted May 6, 2004 Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 This would qualify as Objectivist music only in a concrete bound sense that they seem to use words associated with Objectivism and make references to Rand and her work (which she would have disapproved of). But that misses the point completely. "Objectivist music" (which really isn't a valid concept, but we'll ignore that for now) would not be "music that talks about Objectivist ideas" - it would be music that applies Rand's esthetic theory to music. One of the principles of lyric writing that I think would be mandatory for an Objectivist band would be to eschew abstractions. Talking about "integrity" and "justice" in the context of a song is like throwing spoltches of paint on a canvas and claiming you were painting emotion. To elicit emotion, you need to create something concrete and particular that embodies that abstraction. It's much more powerful when Rush sings about The Trees then to pick up a guitar and read Galt's speech. Now, I happen to think the most essential ingredient in music, from an Objectivist perspective, is not the lyrics, which are secondary or less, but the music itself. In my view, the best sense of life music is to be found in swing revival rock bands (Big Bad Voodoo Daddies, Cherry Poppin' Daddies, etc.), and good ol' rock n' roll (Billy Joel being my particular favorite). But those are opinions. The fact remains, there is no music I would classify as Objectivism influenced in a proper esthetic sense. Certainly not what you posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betsy Posted May 6, 2004 Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 The bands name is Spiral Architect Everything I have seen about them looks more like Nietzsche than like Ayn Rand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard_Halley Posted May 6, 2004 Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 It's much more powerful when Rush sings about The Trees then to pick up a guitar and read Galt's speech. Plus, Alex Lifeson can play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramare Posted May 6, 2004 Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 Now, I happen to think the most essential ingredient in music, from an Objectivist perspective, is not the lyrics, which are secondary or less, but the music itself. In my view, the best sense of life music is to be found in swing revival rock bands (Big Bad Voodoo Daddies, Cherry Poppin' Daddies, etc.), and good ol' rock n' roll (Billy Joel being my particular favorite). But those are opinions. I agree . . . from *any* perspective. I would add some '80s music, including the Swedish band Roxette, to the "best sense of life" list. The Beach Boys being my particular favorite as far as the good ol' rock n' roll goes (with The Rolling Stones pretty high up there, too). And maybe I'll have to check out a little more of those Cherry Poppin' Daddies. It seems to me I liked something of theirs that was on the radio a while back. I love Rush, too, but it has nothing to do with their lyrics. This is where Richard_Halley's point comes in. Those boys can play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondigitalia Posted May 6, 2004 Report Share Posted May 6, 2004 Big Bad Voodoo Daddies, Cherry Poppin' Daddies, etc. You forgot the Squirrel Nut Zippers!!!! They're my favorite! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterSwig Posted May 7, 2004 Report Share Posted May 7, 2004 I was surprised to discover a band from the country of Ragnar Danneskjold, and also my homecountry, Norway who seem to be heavily influenced by Objectivism. Their lyrics convey a specific objectivist message and they even make numerous references to Ayn Rands litterature. I found an interview, which included a bit of information about the band's interest in Ayn Rand. If you care, the full interview is located here: Spiral Architect Interview In one question, the drummer Asgeir Mickelson is asked if there is an Ayn Rand fan in the band. He replies: "I know Lars [bass player and band leader] isn't an objectivist but I know he's found Ayn Rand's books interesting. Kaj [guitarist] also likes her books." Judging from their lyrics, which I find vaporous, this band doesn't seem to take ideas seriously. I also noticed that their song "Cloud Constructor" includes a part called "Being and Nothingness". After seeing that and reading the lyrics, I think they also found Sartre "interesting". Unfortunately, I can't judge their music, because the download doesn't work for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Som Guy Posted June 2, 2004 Report Share Posted June 2, 2004 Well I myself have come across an instance of lyrics that seem to uphold Objectivist views. A single song, and the band obviously dosen't even know who Ayn Rand is or have any sort of set beliefs. They move from one idea to another rapidly, but I think they honestly understood the concept of "checking you premises" when they wrote this "How many times will they do the same thing? How did they get programmed to, your following? Everyone's locked up in their suffering The only way you can tell is reconsider everything What if the truth is that there is no truth(Though at first this might seem like it is counter Objectivist views, but what I think they mean is that there might be no truth in what they tell you) The only thing I can prove is there is no proof(same as above^) Don't be so sure that your source is correct(Don't trust others over yourself) People believed it before, before they had checked How many times can they tell you Til you just give them their way How many times can sell you Til you let them have their say Every time you will ignore your Heart it will come back twice more Never deny your own instinct Reconsider Everything Everybody want something they control Some just want grass some they want gold Either way does it feel good or feel low Taking you down not fast but real slow Rebellion done for it's own sake Does not a true free thinker make To go against for it's own sake You're still controlled by the course that the other man takes(This, sadly, is not Objectivist I have to admit) Reconsider everything, reconsider everything Reconsider everything, reconsider everything Reconsider everything, reconsider everything Reconsider everything" - Reconsider Everything- 311 But as you can see a good deal of it echos Objectivist ideas, but then agian I might just be hoping for something inside of nothing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capitalism Forever Posted June 2, 2004 Report Share Posted June 2, 2004 What if the truth is that there is no truth(Though at first this might seem like it is counter Objectivist views, but what I think they mean is that there might be no truth in what they tell you) Nah, I'm afraid the implication is pretty clear: It is possible that there is no truth. The only thing I can prove is there is no proof(same as above^)Yup, same as above. This could be right from the Skepticist Anthem--definitely not Objectivist! Don't be so sure that your source is correct(Don't trust others over yourself) Again, that's not what it says. It says "don't trust your source," regardless of what your source is. There is a difference between not trusting Al-Jazeera and not trusting your eyes--but the song conveniently ignores this difference. People believed it before, before they had checkedTranslation: "People believed Hitler. Don't believe anything." Every time you will ignore your Heart it will come back twice more Never deny your own instinct Reconsider Everything Emotionalism, mysticism, skepticism... Rebellion done for it's own sake Does not a true free thinker make To go against for it's own sake You're still controlled by the course that the other man takes(This, sadly, is not Objectivist I have to admit) Come ON, this is the only part of the song I actually like! "It isn't rational to rebel for the sake of rebellion; if you always do what others don't want you to do, you are not acting independently." But as you can see a good deal of it echos Objectivist ideas, but then agian I might just be hoping for something inside of nothing It seems to me you caught a pretty bad case of "Like the music, therefore I like the lyrics"-itis! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Som Guy Posted June 2, 2004 Report Share Posted June 2, 2004 Well I still think given the context of the stements they are applying these ideas purely to believing what other people tell you. And about disliking that one part, I only disliked the one line "You're still controlled by the course that the other man takes" when reffering to rebelling for your own values. Every time you will ignore your Heart it will come back twice more Never deny your own instinct Reconsider Everything About this, I again choose to think by heart they mean your values and need to uphold them, and by instinct your own logic. Gah, I guess this really isn't that strong of an argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristopherSchlegel Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 I am an objectivist and a musical composer. I agree that the most accurate assessment would be "music that applies Rand's esthetic theory to music". Not that she created any comprehensive (or even fully consistent) theory as such. But she did provide a good starting point in The Romantic Manifesto. Any genre of music that uses basic principles of tonality could potential qualify. For example: from the baroque of Bach to the classical perfection of Beethoven to the romanticism of Tchaikovski to the pop of the Beach Boys & Beatles to the rock of Rush...all of these artists have pieces that are well-constructed and benevolent in nature. I personally love Beethoven more than the rest because his music strikes me as the ultimate in large scale integration, passion and musical craftsmanship. Also, classical (and some romantic) music is in some ways much more capable than other genres of expressing the widest possible range of thoughts and emotions. Nevertheless, different genres should probably be viewed simply as different tools at the artists disposal; not in a manner that would imply one is more inherently/intrinsically valuable than another. That would depend on the content, the intention of the artist and its value to the listener. I use many different genres when composing and think each has its own strengths and weaknesses depending upon what I am trying to express. Anyone interested can hear the results at my site: www.truthagainsttheworld.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfortun Posted August 26, 2004 Report Share Posted August 26, 2004 Check out these lyrics from the Ben Fold's Five song "Philosophy" (especially the last verse): Won't you look up at the skyline At the mortar, block, and glass And check out the reflections in my eyes See they always used to be there Even when this was all was grass And I sang and danced about a high-rise And you were laughing at my helmet hat Laughing at my torch Go ahead you laugh all you want I got my philosophy (It keeps my feet on the ground) And I trust it like the ground That's why my philosophy Keeps me walking when I'm falling down I see that there is evil And I know that there is good And the in-betweens I never understood Would you look at me I'm crazy But I get the job done I'm crazy but I get the job done So go ahead and laugh all you want I got my philosophy (It keeps my feet on the ground) And I trust it like the ground That's why my philosophy Keeps me walking when I'm falling down I pushed you cause I loved you guys I didn't realize That you weren't having fun And I dragged you up the stairs And I told you to fly You were flapping your arms Then you started to cry, you were too high Now you take this all for granted You take the mortar, block, and glass And you forget the speech that moved the stone But it's really not that you can't see The forest from the trees You just never been out in the woods alone I've always enjoyed BFF and these lyrics have always stuck with me. I've never done any research as to whether or not the band really believed these sentiments but even so, it a rare song that hits me so close to home. Even just reading the words brings a tear to my eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfortun Posted August 26, 2004 Report Share Posted August 26, 2004 I personally love Beethoven more than the rest because his music strikes me as the ultimate in large scale integration, passion and musical craftsmanship. Also, classical (and some romantic) music is in some ways much more capable than other genres of expressing the widest possible range of thoughts and emotions. It is the impressive levels of integration that drew me to Wagner, despite his truly apalling philosophy and outlook on life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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