$$$ Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 Interesting article about Norway here:Globe and Mail some highlights: Oil and gas sales pay Norway's government $1-billion (U.S.) a week "But when we have this natural resource, it's a MORAL question: Is it right for our generation to just spend this wealth, this fortune, in our time? It's taken 100 million years to create these resources, and it's possible that they will be used up in the next 50. Isn't it reasonable that the next generation also has the option to choose how to spend the money?" ...Even though the country's economy is booming, with a 2.5-per-cent unemployment rate and vast oil revenues, Finance Minister Kristin Halvorsen chose to raise taxes across the board -- not just income tax, but also the already high taxes on food, on housing and on fuel ...Foreign aid spending, already the highest in the world, will be raised to almost 1 per cent of the country's economy. Foreign debts to almost all countries will be forgiven. And more money will be spent on welfare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggdwill Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 As if future generations will have the machinery and know-how to extract, let alone consume, that oil once we revert back to the Dark Ages as a result of big government and their excessive taxation. - Grant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
$$$ Posted October 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 ha ha! good one. "Is it right for our generation to just spend this wealth" To just spend it...how dare someone JUST spend it. No understanding that future generations also benefit from current spending. Also, he is assuming that oil will still be a source of wealth in the future. "it's taken 100 million years to create these resources" as though the Earth worked to do it for the purpose of providing for future generations "it's possible that they will be used up in the next 50" it's POSSIBLE...therefore we must do nothing just in case "Isn't it reasonable that the next generation also has the option to choose how to spend the money?" Did they extract the oil, build the original platforms? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidOdden Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Did they extract the oil, build the original platforms? No.This raises an interesting question (which I don't entirely know the answer to) -- who did build the platforms? My understanding is that the oil business was originated by a government business, Den norske stats oljeselskap (Statoil). If that is so, then further discussion is corrupted by the denial of basic moral principles from square 1. I don't see how you can apply moral principles in a fundamentally immoral context. It is indeed a moral question whether it is right for this generation or for anyone to spend this wealth, since the wealth, in the form that it exists, should not exist. I really don't know what the solution is -- give the wealth to those who might have rightly created it? Give it back to those from whom it was wrongly taken? The former is probably uncomputable and the latter is untraceable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggdwill Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 This raises an interesting question (which I don't entirely know the answer to) -- who did build the platforms? My understanding is that the oil business was originated by a government business, Den norske stats oljeselskap (Statoil). If that is so, then further discussion is corrupted by the denial of basic moral principles from square 1. I don't see how you can apply moral principles in a fundamentally immoral context. It is indeed a moral question whether it is right for this generation or for anyone to spend this wealth, since the wealth, in the form that it exists, should not exist. I really don't know what the solution is -- give the wealth to those who might have rightly created it? Give it back to those from whom it was wrongly taken? The former is probably uncomputable and the latter is untraceable. *Shrug* - Grant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
$$$ Posted October 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 This raises an interesting question (which I don't entirely know the answer to) -- who did build the platforms? My understanding is that the oil business was originated by a government business, Den norske stats oljeselskap (Statoil). If that is so, then further discussion is corrupted by the denial of basic moral principles from square 1. I don't see how you can apply moral principles in a fundamentally immoral context. It is indeed a moral question whether it is right for this generation or for anyone to spend this wealth, since the wealth, in the form that it exists, should not exist. I really don't know what the solution is -- give the wealth to those who might have rightly created it? Give it back to those from whom it was wrongly taken? The former is probably uncomputable and the latter is untraceable. Seems like a non issue. The industry may have been started by tax payers money. If government still owns oil producing platforms and such, they should be sold off and the money given back to tax payers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolboxnj Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 How much more can Norway raise taxes? When I was there 2 1/2 years ago in Oslo, a pizza and two beers was $50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidOdden Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 How much more can Norway raise taxes? When I was there 2 1/2 years ago in Oslo, a pizza and two beers was $50. How high? Don't know, don't want to know. The sales tax is actually lower than in Sweden, and now they tax food at merely twice the usual American tax rate. Whoopee! Anyhow, there's no question that the Norwegian government should immediately end all taxation, terminate all social service programs, sell all non-defense or police related government property, although it is plain to see that this will not happen. As a taxpayer, I would like some of my money back, though other people would also like some of their tax money back, so the only serious question here is what is the proper way to make reparations. The question (post 3) of who built the platforms is indeed entirely irrelevant, and has no bearing at all on the question of who should receive this ill-gotten gain derived from (whopping) taxation. Mr $$$ confused the issue by interjecting that red herring. My proposal, painful as it might seem, is that the money should simply be destroyed in a supreme recognition of the true nature of coercive government and taxation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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