Jump to content
Objectivism Online Forum

Germany wants to charge Rumsfeld, Gonzalez, and Tenet

Rate this topic


The Wrath
 Share

Recommended Posts

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,...1557842,00.html

Do you think anything will actually come of this? I can't imagine that we will hand over our own leaders to be tried in a German court, but I guess no amount of idiocy is beyond our government these days.

This seriously pisses me off. I can at least understand why the UN thinks it should have a say in our affairs, because we did at least join it of our own free will. But where the hell does Germany get off thinking that we owe them a part of our sovereignty? This is going to do serious damage to our relationship with Germany, which hasn't been all that great in the past few years anyway. Merkel seems like a level-headed woman, so hopefully she'll try to put an end to this nonsense...unless, of course, she's still pissed about Bush trying to give her a backrub.

Edited by Moose
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't imagine that we will hand over our own leaders to be tried in a German court, but I guess no amount of idiocy is beyond our government these days.
Short term: no. Long term: maybe. I've been shocked to learn to what extent Norway is a slave to the EU. It is basically a non-voting member of the EU, subject to all of the horrible EU regulations and yet having no say in those regulations. Why? Well, there are these trade laws in Europe... So can Europe economically bully us into being subject to EU rules? I hope not, and yet it is not inconceivable. This is plainly contemporary European aggression against the free world, an attempt of the Eurocrats to dictate world policy without bothering to hide the nature of the force that they plan to use.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can you elaborate a little more on the situation in Norway? In what way is it enslaved to the EU?
Well, there are these various EU regulations which, in fact, Norway is subject to. I shall omit details because it involves friends (who don't post here), but for example local elementary schools are now required to obtain permission to do ordinary practical outdoors things that they've done for years here (making sausage, trapping grouse), but they violate EU regulations about "safety". As far as I know, Norway is subject to all EU regulations, but does not have a vote on what those regulations will be. I'm trying not to learn too much about what those specific resulations are.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This isn't Germany bringing charges, it's some people filing charges in a German court.

The plaintiffs in the case include 11 Iraqis who were prisoners at Abu Ghraib, as well as Mohammad al-Qahtani, a Saudi held at Guantanamo,
Germany was chosen for the court filing because German law provides "universal jurisdiction" allowing for the prosecution of war crimes and related offenses that take place anywhere in the world.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,...1557842,00.html

Do you think anything will actually come of this? I can't imagine that we will hand over our own leaders to be tried in a German court, but I guess no amount of idiocy is beyond our government these days.

This seriously pisses me off. I can at least understand why the UN thinks it should have a say in our affairs, because we did at least join it of our own free will. But where the hell does Germany get off thinking that we owe them a part of our sovereignty? This is going to do serious damage to our relationship with Germany, which hasn't been all that great in the past few years anyway. Merkel seems like a level-headed woman, so hopefully she'll try to put an end to this nonsense...unless, of course, she's still pissed about Bush trying to give her a backrub.

This isn't Germany saying it has a say in our affairs.

Let's say the Germans go through try and convict these people in absentia (since they probably wouldn't go to Germany for the trial), what then?

Well so long as they don't travel to Germany or to any country that might hand them over to Germany, nothing will happen.

If they make the mistake of hopping on a plane to Berlin they will be arrested and thrown in prison.

Every nation has the right to declare someone a criminal on their soil following due process, and to punish that person if they end up on the nation's soil.

Germany wouldn't have the right to send a commando squad to abduct these people a la Israel and Eichmann.

But that assumes you think Israel was wrong for abducting Eichmann to stand trial. If you think Israel was in the clear, I guess you think the Germans can abduct Rumsfeld and try him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can think of no better excuse to get out of the UN after this, and also to launch a full condemnation of the EU. However, I'd actually like to see Germany try to come over here and take Rumsfeld by force, as I doubt they actually have the will to try.

This reminds me of the witch hunt that Europe had for Pinochet after he helped liberate Chile, utterly disgusting. :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Every nation has the right to declare someone a criminal on their soil following due process, and to punish that person if they end up on the nation's soil.
Not sure what you mean by "right". If you mean "it's part of international law", that's probably true. However, if you mean they have such a legitimate right, then no they do not.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A country can't just say they have "universal jurisdiction" and then they do. Lol. They will find out the hard way if they actually try to carry out any verdict.

I am personally hoping that they actually try to carry out their verdict, so everyone can see once and for all how absurd the concept of international law, as it is currently defined, is in practice. I want to see the German government actually try to send an extradition request, or better yet, try to send agents to try and snatch Rumsfeld from his home in the dead of night. Unfortunately, as any imasculated government, the Germans most probably do not have the will to actually try this. This nonsense of trials for political leaders during wars is actually a bit comical. I may be inspired to write a satire over what these persons are trying to do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...