Outdoors

[kufa]

Who likes the outdoors and why?

[Time_Maker]

Hello Kufa

I will be the first one to raise my hand and say "Yes, I love the outdoors".

I love the outdoors because its a change of scenery, I live and work in a medium sized city, and being outdoors is a great change for my senses.

I love the outdoors because I get to explore and see different things, and the feeling of accomplishment thereof. Its great to find a beautiful lake in the forest, or to climb a hard hill, or to go off the beaten path and find some arrowheads left over from another civilization.

I like the outdoors because I know I can successfully control it if I need to, and to make those raw goods into something productive, and knowing that I don't need to control it.

Why do you like the outdoors?

[kufa]

I like nature for all of the reasons you mentioned, with an addition:

I love it because it is challenging. Since I was young, I have been extremely intelligent (not to brag) and almost everything is easy for me. Hiking and what not is difficult, it makes for a nice change.

Another reason is the fact that if I can survive in nature, it always is an option. So if the commies come and take over, I can always go live in the forest .

[Inspector]

With this topic, it is always important to enumerate what you like about the outdoors, and why. Different people like it for different reasons.

Speaking personally, I occasionally like going out into the desert and getting on top of something to get a good view (preferably, by means of motor vehicle). But I absolutely hate the midwest forest type area where I grew up. Everything is soggy and muddy and filthy, plus everything is trying to eat me.

I don't know just how "hardcore" you guys are, but I severely doubt that you could back up your claims that you can "control" or "survive," unaided, in the wild outdoors. I'm going to have to bust your chops a little bit because that idea is a very common, and very romanticized, one. The fact is that "nature" is extremely hostile to the survival requirements of human beings and it is a very big challenge to even stay alive in it for long. It's no picnic, in other words.

Okay, what's my point here? It's important to define your terms. To say that you "like the outdoors" is not really accurate. What you're really saying is that "I like occasionally venturing into a tamed and controlled garden, but only on my own terms and with the assistance of countless technological aides, and only for a few days or hours after which I return to my comfortable, man-made home."

So, to sum up: "nature" is an awful place, that needs to be tamed to make it even remotely hospitable and you guys are nancy boys who have no idea what it really means to "be in nature."

[Vladimir Berkov]

I like the outdoors because I like to explore in general, and the outdoors is perhaps the best place for it. It is also a great place to find solitude.

I also enjoy in the context of military reenacting quite a bit. It is interesting how you can survive in the field with "primative" 19th or early-20th century equipment as compared to the highly technical outdoors equipment seen today. I sometimes smile when I see someone wearing a pair of spotless $200 Gore-tex hiking boots around the city, when my m1917 leather-soled, hobnailed boots have likely seen far more rough use in all weather and climates.

[Scott_Connery]

Nothing is better than taking my dogs out in the mountains and roaming around for a few hours. Well, maybe roaming followed by some fishing or hunting would be better.

[DavidOdden]

I like evergreen forests, primarily coastal West Coast varieties, but the dry-side pine forests are nice too (mostly around Omak). I'm fairly intolerant of the desert, and really loathe the Illinois-Ohio version of "the outdoors" because of the humidity (I'm a heat-avoider). I see no merit to open grassfields, except e.g. the first time you see one of those "nothing in any direction as far as the eye can see" fields, it's an interesting visual experience. Flat land generally leaves me cold: mountains are nice. Clean running water at regular intervals, and it shouldn't be swampy. No bugs except butterflies, and especially no mosquitos or biting flies.

I have many reasons for going outside; one of them is to watch the funny lights up in the night sky, although that's a seasonal and locational activity. I like the smell of certain outdoor air (non-sulfurous versions of the ocean, pine forests; also -- and this is the one attraction of the Dakotas -- the smell of the grasslands). One thing is for sure, I would not drive all the way to Bozeman just to sniff the grass. And did I mention the bonfires? I live by the "one match, plenty of fuel" rule.

And that is why I'm buying me an SUV, so that I can enjoy all of this stuff, and be able to drag along comfy chairs and a real mattress to sleep on, not to mention a chair with a hole on the middle. Because I hate squatting, and sleeping on the ground is a guaranteed path to a lousy night's sleep. And a beer fridge is important.

[Inspector]

I... really loathe the Illinois-Ohio version of "the outdoors" because of the humidity

Oh, lord... I forgot to mention that. How I hate the humidity. Moving to the desert was a good call for me.

[kufa]

I don't know just how "hardcore" you guys are, but I severely doubt that you could back up your claims that you can "control" or "survive," unaided, in the wild outdoors. I'm going to have to bust your chops a little bit because that idea is a very common, and very romanticized, one. The fact is that "nature" is extremely hostile to the survival requirements of human beings and it is a very big challenge to even stay alive in it for long. It's no picnic, in other words.

I agree with you. I wouln't choose to live in nature except under a situation like communism, and if I did, I would be sure ot bring some hining boots, a water-filterer, and some hunting materials. I am not hardcore, I just said that I like nature. note that I said "if I can survive." I just got into hiking, so I am not all that experienced, but I hope to go on a lot more hikes during the winter.

So, to sum up: "nature" is an awful place, that needs to be tamed to make it even remotely hospitable and you guys are nancy boys who have no idea what it really means to "be in nature."

Well, first of all, i'm a girl.

One reason I started this thread was that a lot of objectivists would always prefer being in a man-made environment than ever being in nature. The thing about cities and such is that it is predictable what you might find there. Nature has "mystery" which can be much more exciting than something man-made. Nature can be hostile and deadly, but if it werent, it wouldn't be exciting. It is definately invigorating to have a little danger in life, it makes you realize how much you appreciate life.

[Inspector]

I agree with you.

And I'm mostly pulling your chain, and reminding you to be precise with your wording.

One reason I started this thread was that a lot of objectivists would always prefer being in a man-made environment than ever being in nature. The thing about cities and such is that it is predictable what you might find there. Nature has "mystery" which can be much more exciting than something man-made. Nature can be hostile and deadly, but if it werent, it wouldn't be exciting. It is definately invigorating to have a little danger in life, it makes you realize how much you appreciate life.

But this shows the difference between life, and a hobby. Hobbies, such as skydiving, can be challenging or even dangerous. But to say that you like skydiving is not to say that the proper state of man is to live hurtling toward the ground from great heights. Unfortunately, to say you "like nature" is ambiguous. Many people mean that the proper state of man is to live "close to nature," where you meant instead that "it is sometimes enjoyable for me to temporarily enter a natural environment so that I can enjoy triumphing over it." Whereas with those people, the last thing they want is to triumph over it; they want it to triumph over them.

I can very much understand triumphing over the adversity of nature. In fact, I'd very much enjoy paving over great swaths of it. That'll show it who's boss.

[Inspector]

Well, first of all, i'm a girl.

See, that only feeds my humor.

[Inspector]

Ah, the blogs are with me this week: Andy at the Charlotte Capitalist found a funny quote on this subject:

We need technology to fight against nature. Nature so wants us dead. Nature is trying to kill us. The natural things in this world are HIV and bears. Everything natural in the world wants us dead.

[aequalsa]

One reason I started this thread was that a lot of objectivists would always prefer being in a man-made environment than ever being in nature. The thing about cities and such is that it is predictable what you might find there. Nature has "mystery" which can be much more exciting than something man-made.

I've done quite a bit of hiking an interestingly have come to the opposite conclusion. That people are far more unpredictable then nature. When hiking or climbing you are really dependent on just your own skills and abilities. For my part, I enjoy the consistency of nature.

[Inspector]

I'm seeing another common thread here, besides the challenge of conquering nature: getting away from people. Now, whether this is because you're a misanthrope or because you hate the jabbering lunatics that pass for "people" these days... well, that's something you'll have to decide for yourself. I personally don't get what all the "getting away" hubub is about; there is, after all, a lock on my door.

[aequalsa]

I'm seeing another common thread here, besides the challenge of conquering nature: getting away from people. Now, whether this is because you're a misanthrope or because you hate the jabbering lunatics that pass for "people" these days... well, that's something you'll have to decide for yourself. I personally don't get what all the "getting away" hubub is about; there is, after all, a lock on my door.

Speaking for myself, that is partially the case. However, getting away from people is not really the primary goal. More that I am getting to be with myself. What I like about it, is that I do not depend on anyone else in any way for the accompishment of a task-even if the tasks are sort of without purpose. Don't have to worry about incompetent employees, suppliers that don't come through in time on a delivery, etc.

[Time_Maker]

After rediscovering this thread, I feel like I should edit my response to reflect the questions that Inspector bought up.

I don't consider myself "Hardcore", I like "Softcore" myself. I like places like Yosemite, places that are rugged, cold violate .

I'm a Photographer of nature. Some of the most beautiful places of nature are the hardest to get. I like the challenge, and I like the feeling of success from taking a wonderful beautiful picture.

I also know how to survive, and get out of it as well.

And that is all the reasons why I love the outdoors.

[realitycheck44]

I love the outdoors too. Skiing is probably my favorite sport, followed closely by rock climbing, backpacking, and kayaking. I agree with Inspector, I would hate to truly live in the wild. But I don't have to! I love pushing myself to the limit, even scaring myself occasionally, and coming home to a nice warm house (man, I wish I had a hot-tub) and clean bed. Personally, I've found that the same energy that drives my outdoor enthusiasm also drives my life as a (future) engineer.

I wrote a short story, posted in the member writing section, where I try to describe the relationship between man and technology in the outdoors. It's kind of a response to the commonly held belief by climbers that technology is a bad thing.