Pizza Delivery

[DavidOdden]

However, I just have to say that my understanding of tipping is that it is customarily given unless service is poor.

In a particular context, I agree that that is a tre description. This is a fact about the US (dunno about Canada) in restaurants. It is not the same fact in e.g. Europe (the scales are also different), and it's not a fact about all services.

To not do so is a violation of an unstated, but implied agreement between the customer, the restaurant owner and the waiter.

No, there really is no such implied agreement. The concept of implied agreement is applicable to permission to enter a place of business for the purpose of buying their goods (you don't need to be explicitly told that you have permission to enter). There is, similarly, no "implied agreement" that you will pay taxes which nullifies the fact that taxation is theft.

Just because the agreement is one that arises through custom does not mean that an agreement is not there.

True, but equally, just because there is no actual agreement and there is a common habit of doing so does not mean that there is an implied universal agreement that all men should do so. The fact that some people implicitely demand money for the unearned does not mean that it is right to do so.

The waiter is being paid by the emloyer, and I am paying the employer. Thus I have paid. I should not pay for more, unless it is exceptional.

[Galileo Blogs]

What implied agreement? When I go to a restaurant, I have the option of tipping. If it were an agreement, tipping would not be optional...as it is not when a waiter has to serve more than a certain number of people (I think the number is usually around eight per party). Then the tip is added automatically.

If the tip is not added automatically, then the "agreement" is left up to the person being served. He does not have to walk into the restaurant (or when having his pizza delivered), wanting to tip anybody. If the waiter does a good job and the customer feels he deserves extra pay for this, then he can tip. But I recognize no "implied agreement."

I expect decent service...otherwise I wouldn't be eating there. If I receive more than decent service (frequent refills, excellent presentation, quick delivery, etc), then I tip.

Essentially everyone I know and observe in restaurants tips at nearly every meal. Of course, that in itself doesn't mean it is an obligation, but if my observation is representative it is as at least customary. However, I do believe there is an implied agreement to tip, for the reasons I stated in my earlier post.

In other countries it is not customary to tip. For example, if I recall correctly, it is not customary in Japan. I suspect restaurant owners there proportionately pay their waiters more to make up the difference. Perhaps Japanese do tip on occasion, but only when service is truly outstanding. However, that is not the custom here, where tipping for standard good service is customary, and no tipping is for poor service.

Speaking personally, I do not mind tipping. I have always considered it a variable and voluntary payment for service, but a payment I would forgo only if the service was lousy. I feel that I benefit from the custom of tipping, because it's purpose is To Insure Promptness, i.e., to motivate good service.

Regarding the mandatory inclusion of tips when there are large parties, a restaurant manager once told me why they do it is because large groups often don't leave tips for whatever reason, so he adds it as an automatic add-on. From the restaurant manager's perspective, I did not get the impression that he thought tipping only applied to large groups. On the contrary, the implication was that tipping was customary for all diners, and it was added to large groups only because people weren't doing it.

[KendallJ]

The fact that one is not legally obligated to tip is why it works as an effective method To Insure Promptness (TIP) in the provision of personal services, such as waitering. The waiter works hard to provide good service knowing that if he does not the customer may not tip him. At the same time, he can try to provide exceptional service in the hope of gaining a larger-than-typical tip. If you dine out and get waiter service, you are benefiting from this customary, albeit not legally-binding arrangement. You should pay for it.

Well, GB, I'm going to have to disagree with you here. I think that the fact that it is not customarily obligated is what makes it an effective method To Insure Promptness.

I base this on what I know about behavioral science and my own workplace experiences. 2 examples.

a. There is a lot of literature on the "pay for performance" concept, whereby rather than pay someone a fixed salary, that a portion of their salary is put at risk, usually tied to some sort of performance measure. I believe that the research shows that a certain amount of pay offered in this manner is a behavioral motivator. That is, it will modify behavior. Note that this is true even if unforseen circumstances cause the performance measure not to be realized. Yes, you don't always get the bonus, because something else happened to impact business performance, but you know, those are the breaks. The fact that you don't actually makes one (who doesn't cultivate a sense of entitlement) work that much more diligently for it.

b. When you look at animal behavior characteristics, you see that this effect is also very true. Positive Reinforcement theory would prescribe that once a behavior is learned, that the most effective reward mechanism to maintain behavior is one that rewards only correct behavior, but on a totally random frequency. That is, if you give an animal the reward every time he does the behavior correctly, he comes to expect it, and in fact, his performance decreases because of this expectation. He forms a "sense of entitlement" and actually works less. If instead he knows that behavior will get him reward, just not if it will come this time or next, he will actually perform more consistently and better in order to not miss out on a rare opportunity for reward. (By the way, I see this daily in my poodle. I can assure you it works the way I describe)

Frankly, I think this is just, and it mirrors the "real world". That is, reality doesn't reward you everytime you do something correctly, but rather there is a random element to it. To be successful over the long run we have to have more than just ability, we have to have consistency. You're in the investment field, right? Should I resent the fact that a particularly well-studied stock pick does not pan out as expected? No. You expect only some of the picks to work in your favor, and in fact, you realize that to be someone like a Warren Buffet takes more than skill, but it take perserverence, that is, you specifically must recognize that reality rewards patience and consistency, and a sense of entitlement is not the correct psychological mindset to build that consistency. Long term consistency in life is a virtue for the exact reason that reality doesn't necessarily reward you getting it right once.

All of this talk of customary expectation, of low employer wages due to "dependance on tips" merely forms a sense of entitlement in those who use it.

I know where you are coming from in your argument but would ask if randomness in reward doesn't in fact build a higher sense of responsibility and consistency than does any sort of built-up expectation.

To that end (and people are going to hate this), while I believe in tipping for service - especially for exemplary service, I don't get too worked up if I forget to tip just average service. It happens. Wait staff should learn to overcome it psychologically, and go on. It's good for them.

Edited March 13, 2007 by KendallJ

[Dorian]

I also find the popular concept of tipping repulsive.

I'm not frugal, generally I tip about 20% because I feel better overpaying than under, but I don't do it to be altruistic.

If you're a server/delivery guy and are not being paid enough it's not the customers responsibility, it's your managers. You have no right to claim people owe you money or forcefully take it. If you're not being paid enough than you should quit or the manager should give you a raise and possibly raise the prices on the food.

I also find it horribly offensive when a tip is automatically added to my bill. Whenever that happens I feel like yelling at the staff, paying what's owed, and not tip at all. Of course being the kind of person that I am I just get angry then go home and rant about it on the internet. By adding the tip for me it says, I demand your charity.

Here's another thing, I don't tip because a worker is underpaid and deserves it. I tip when I am pleased with good service. If the worker actually deserved a higher pay than he/she would have had the honesty to ask for a raise or quit. If someone else would gladly take the job then the server was probably wrong. If someone else will not than the manager should give the server a raise.

There was a long time at my current job where I was underpaid. Eventually my problem was fixed because I had the mind and reason to be honest about it with my employeers and explain why. But I can't imagine how absurd it would be to not discuss this problem with them and then expect a tip every time I finished a task, or worse, demanded it. Is it just me or does that seem completely backwards and dishonest?

I worked in a restaurant once and I know what it is like to work in a tipping environment. Yes it is hard work and I did not get paid well, but I expected it. Had I decided to quit there would have been a line of people waiting to take my job.

[Galileo Blogs]

Well, I find waiter service to be generally very good in New York (and in most other cities I've visited). I am glad to tip the waiters. I don't have a problem with this custom. I don't feel that I am doing it to be nice, or to help out a "working" person (as if only blue collar people work), or any similar reason. I am tipping to recognize and motivate good service.

Kendall, you seem to be suggesting that the custom is bad and that it should change. You apparently don't have a problem with being a "change-agent" to accomplish same. I don't have a problem with that. Hell, that is how certain practices become customary in the first place. First a few people do something and then a lot of people do something and, before you know it, it is customary. Certainly, no tipping (or rare tipping) works out as a policy in Japan and other countries. There is no reason why it can't work out here for the reasons you cite regarding motivation.

I will say that I nearly never tip at Starbucks or places like that where there is a tip jar placed near the cash register. I don't think there is much service to justify a tip in those situations, and I prefer to pay for the service that is provided as part of the cash price for the coffee drink I am getting. So, in those instances I am a change-agent for the status quo ante, before the tip jars appeared.

If I have lousy service, I don't tip. In reading the posts some of you have provided, I keep getting the sneaking suspicion that many of you get lousy waiter service at the restaurants you go to. Maybe you're going to the wrong restaurants!

I will retract my position that tipping is an obligation. I say, to each his own. For me, I will gladly continue to tip for the good waiter service I am getting!

Here's to enjoyable restaurant meals!

[KendallJ]

Kendall, you seem to be suggesting that the custom is bad and that it should change. You apparently don't have a problem with being a "change-agent" to accomplish same. I don't have a problem with that. Hell, that is how certain practices become customary in the first place. First a few people do something and then a lot of people do something and, before you know it, it is customary. Certainly, no tipping (or rare tipping) works out as a policy in Japan and other countries. There is no reason why it can't work out here for the reasons you cite regarding motivation.

GB, I'm not particularly saying that I want change. I am simply suggesting that it is true that we can define what is "just" from our side of the table as the person tipping. However the person on the receiving end of the tip should not expect a tip from any particular person according to their own determination of what a just tip should be. The tip is completely at my option to give based upon my assessment of how someone has earned the tip.

Instead of viewing any particular tip as some sort of expected reward based upon a standard of their definition, the recipient should look at it instead as a comparison of

a) how much I make in tips given a particular level of service, and

how much I make in tips given the extra effort to provide impeccable service

and then the person should look to differentiate their service consistently to earn the greatest amount in tips for the marginal effort put forth. I think that this is the virtuous perspective from the recipient's point of view.

Viewed this way then, what is customary is really what is arbitrary.

[Galileo Blogs]

Kendall, I agree with you until the last sentence. Tipping is not arbitrary. Custom dictates a tip for standard good service in the, say, 15%-20% range. This precludes not tipping when there is good service. The only thing that is arbitrary is that tipping emerged as a custom in America but not in Japan. That reflects cultural/historical differences.

Tipping standards can continue to change. Already, tipping standards seem to be changing, with emerging practices such as the Starbucks tipping jar. Perhaps, in 10 years this will become widespread to the point where it will be an aberration not to tip. I doubt it, for the reason I mentioned in my prior post, and suspect it will not catch on and become customary.

Here in New York, it is customary to tip doormen and other building staff. In the same manner that I tip out of self-interest at restaurants, I do that with the building superintendent and doormen. These people receive my packages, greet my guests and hall away my garbage. I want them to look after my packages, guests (and garbage?) well, so I tip them. And if they go out of their way to be extra helpful during the year, as some of them have, I tip them more. Interestingly, as in restaurants, the tip comes after the service is performed, since I tip them at the end of the year, at Christmas.

I tip my hair cutter for the same reason. I hope he provides that little extra service that can make the difference between a good and bad hair day.

If you are saying that the person getting the tip should not view it as something they must receive, I agree with you. I like the voluntary aspect of tipping, even if it is widespread and customary. At the same time, not to tip is foolish from a selfish point of view. Furthermore, in situations where it is customary to give a tip, it's bad manners not to tip if good service has been provided.

In sum, you are not obligated to tip, you decide the amount but if you just had an enjoyable, well-served meal, it "should" be in the 15%-20% range (or something similar, according to your preference).

[Inspector]

Custom dictates a tip for standard good service in the, say, 15%-20% range.

Despite the fact that "tip for standard service" is a contradiction in terms, that is indeed the custom. That's only a small part of the gigantic irrationality that is the tipping custom, though.

[DarkWaters]

Not that I'm accusing apeman of being immoral, just, well, I dunno, incautious in his morality, or giving in to fashion. That, or he has really great pizza delivery in his neighborhood.

Well Balto, you are correct in that I have been perfunctoral in practice on the particular issue of giving the delivery boy an extra two dollars. I have not really reflected on the morality of tipping for pizza delivery before this thread but I do agree with just about everything you have said in principle especially here.

With regards to great delivery in my neighborhood, there is one chinese restaurant that manages to get my order to my house consistently around twenty minutes. I have even timed them once because I am fascinated by these things. It is unclear to what extent the delivery boy is responsible for the swift delivery. With this company, he probably does not dally.

For those of you familiar with food delivery, do you know if any companies use any kind of system to efficiently assign orders to carriers? Just curious.

Edited March 14, 2007 by DarkWaters

[BaseballGenius]

For those of you familiar with food delivery, do you know if any companies use any kind of system to efficiently assign orders to carriers? Just curious.

Yeah, the human mind. At my place, one of the managers assigns orders to each delivery driver based on the location of the delivery. We get deliveries that are near each other. That means sometimes an order has to sit in a pouch for a few minutes if a driver has to wait for his next order. But a lot of the time drivers get only one order to deliver and they take it as soon as it comes out of the oven. The minimum amount of time a pizza order can get to an average distanced location is about 25 minutes, and that happens quite a bit at my place.

[DarkWaters]

Yeah, the human mind. At my place, one of the managers assigns orders to each delivery driver based on the location of the delivery. We get deliveries that are near each other. That means sometimes an order has to sit in a pouch for a few minutes if a driver has to wait for his next order. But a lot of the time drivers get only one order to deliver and they take it as soon as it comes out of the oven. The minimum amount of time a pizza order can get to an average distanced location is about 25 minutes, and that happens quite a bit at my place.

Approximately how long does it take to prepare an order after it is received?

[BaseballGenius]

Approximately how long does it take to prepare an order after it is received?

Assuming there arent any other orders that need to be made or prepared, it will take about 3-5 minutes to make the pizza prior to putting it in the oven. This is at the Pizza Hut I work at, because they are prepped earlier in the day(sauced and cheesed), then mainly its just adding whatever toppings are ordered. Once in the oven, it takes about 10-12 minutes to come out. Someone cuts it and puts it in a box. The driver then puts it in a heating pouch and delivers it.

Usually more than one pizza is ordered or some appetizer like wings or breadsticks, so add a few minutes if these are ordered.

[FeatherFall]

At the dominos where I work, the drivers decide what orders go where and with whom. A regular order (two pizzas, two sides) will be out of the oven in about eleven to twelve minutes if it is the only one at the time. The driving time to the farthest place in good weather with good traffic is about 15-17 minutes. The shortest locations take about 2-3 minutes to traverse. Additional deliveries, road conditions and other factors can push total individual delivery time to the 50 min-1 hour range.

Obligations must be created by the obligee, not society. Since in fact I don't have an obligation to tip (the proof is that there is no law obligating me to tip), your perception of society is in error.It's not only right to "stiff", it's immoral to tip unless the pizza boy provides exceptional service, i.e. actually has earned from you any special consideration.

David, I think it is a little silly to talk about 'obligations' in the pizza delivery business. I'm sorry the conversation has been steered to the point that you have to declare that you don't have an obligation to tip. The simple fact is that you don't.

I do have a hard time understanding why you think tips are only for an exceptional service. Normally I would not consider paying more than the asking price for any good or service. But, my understanding of the tip custom is that it exists (partially) to allow customers more freedom in valuing a service. To facilitate this, tip-related service industries differentiate themselves from other industries by reducing the guaranteed wages of the person who will directly serve the customer. The tip, then, is not a reflection only of the service an individual employee renders, but of other factors that would be impossible for a business to calculate. For examples of these factors, I will refer you to my time-wage example below, as well as the many examples in my last post.

Where I work, there is a $1.25 delivery fee (incidentally, $.85 of that goes to the driver). By not tipping me, a customer says that not having to get in his car, not driving over to the place, not having to (possibly) wait in line and return home with the food (making his car stink) is worth only $1.25. Cutting one half of the travel time out of the total it takes before he can eat his food is probably worth more than this, depending on his hourly income. The average pizza guy wants a customer to recognize this value, and not necessarily by compensating him the entire monetary value of the customers saved time.

For three medium pizzas delivered from where I work, the total charge is usually $17.14. If I were to order three medium one-topping pizzas, I am usually in a situation where I value the sum of the product and service at around $20. So I would give a Jackson, and the guy who's wages facilitate the industry would get another $2.86. I might give him a dollar extra or ask for a dollar back depending on how fast he got there, how warm the food was or whether or not he was polite or rude.

This system requires the voluntary participation of the customer. Refusing to tip for average service, in this case, is a refusal to recognize the nature of the industry. By refusing to tip, you are taking advantage of the industry without recognizing who and what make it possible. Again, there is no obligation to tip. It isn't illegal, but it is immoral and rude. If you don't like the custom, don't participate at all (don't order anything).

I also find it horribly offensive when a tip is automatically added to my bill. Whenever that happens I feel like yelling at the staff, paying what's owed, and not tip at all. Of course being the kind of person that I am I just get angry then go home and rant about it on the internet. By adding the tip for me it says, I demand your charity.

This part of what you said sounds a little ridiculous to me. Would you be less offended if they simply raised their menu prices by %15-%20 and didn't tell you what you are paying for? If so, why?

Edited March 14, 2007 by FeatherFall

[BaseballGenius]

This system requires the voluntary participation of the customer. Refusing to tip for average service, in this case, is a refusal to recognize the nature of the industry. By refusing to tip, you are taking advantage of the industry without recognizing who and what make it possible. Again, there is no obligation to tip.

How can you say there is no obligation to tip after saying all that?

Just for reference, 'obligation' is defined as: "something by which a person is bound or obliged to do certain things, and which arises out of a sense of duty or results from custom, law, etc."

[FeatherFall]

Maybe I misunderstood the word. My understanding of it was bound to the idea of rights and what one must do in relation to those. In reference to tips, I really didn't see individual rights coming into play - you certainly don't have a legal obligation to tip, nor are you violating the delivery guy's rights by not tipping.

Because the amount one should tip is so closely linked to the customer's personal context, it is possible that the advocates of not tipping a standard amount really do only value the service at the base price. But, I would expect that advocacy to come from a lack of understanding of the industry. For someone to not tip who does understand the industry, I would expect their personal context to involve close proximity to the pizza place (like adjacent suites, or somewhere the delivery guy can walk to), or I'd expect them to be very poor and very busy.

Anyway, if there is a context to the word 'obligation' that doesn't involve individual rights, than it applies here and I will have to withdraw that point in my last post. But, that type of obligation is the kind where only the person who is obliged can identify it. I would be out of place even approximating someone else's level of obligation without them volunteering more information than I would care to know. So, when I get crappy tips, I assume a benevolent universe and chalk it up to a lack of understanding of the industry or some fluke circumstance.

[KendallJ]

Just for reference, 'obligation' is defined as: "something by which a person is bound or obliged to do certain things, and which arises out of a sense of duty or results from custom, law, etc."

Well, we already know what Objectivism says about "sense of duty", and we've agreed that it is not legal binding; therefore, I assume that you are claiming obligation out of custom.

This is the issue that GB and I are debating. Custom provides a mental shortcut to a suggested practice, but I can't see anyway that it creates an obligation, other than out of a desire not to "appear" rude, which I would think is second handed. Or out of a desire to disrupt the recipient's sense of entitlement, which I've already said I think is bad psychology.

[BaseballGenius]

Well, we already know what Objectivism says about "sense of duty", and we've agreed that it is not legal binding; therefore, I assume that you are claiming obligation out of custom.

Yeah. Obligation because of custom.

This is the issue that GB and I are debating. Custom provides a mental shortcut to a suggested practice, but I can't see anyway that it creates an obligation, other than out of a desire not to "appear" rude, which I would think is second handed. Or out of a desire to disrupt the recipient's sense of entitlement, which I've already said I think is bad psychology.

Dont you agree that probably every employer pays their waitresses or pizza drivers minimum wage or close to it because its known in America to tip for that service, and that the customers are supposed to compensate the rest of their wages? At this point in time, its really not the employers fault that they pay these employees so little since its well known and accepted by the majority that tips cover their wages. And whether you like the tip system or not, you cant argue that its not part of our culture. You arent obligated to go to the business place, but if you choose to go there then I think you are obligated to pay the customary tip(unless bad service).

[KendallJ]

Dont you agree that probably every employer pays their waitresses or pizza drivers minimum wage or close to it because its known in America to tip for that service, and that the customers are supposed to compensate the rest of their wages?

Custom does not obligate. The employer "dependency" is an example fo the tail wagging the dog so that you can create a sense of entitlement for yourself. Please see my previous post on why that is terrible psychology.

Take the custom (that a certain group of people tip at some average percentage, when spread accross all of their particular evaluations. Note this is something LESS than 15%)as a metaphysical fact.

You are correct that an employer sets his wage based upon whatever total expected income (in wage and tips at the net rate) will allow him to hire the caliber of staff he needs. Is this an argument to perpetuate the custom? Not in the least.

If the custom shifts, it is simply a new metaphysical fact that the employer takes into account. That is, if the new effective tipping rate is too low for him to hire his staff given his existing wage, he will increase his base wages. You will get your same wages regardless of what the custom is.

Note also that the employer doesn't think about the tip rate at the customary rate, but just at the actual effective rate (if he thinks about it at all) so whatever you're getting tipped today seems to be enough to get the employer the caliber of staff that he needs. So why are you complaining? Your current effective tips plus wage is the going rate for pizza delivery persons.

The custom is completely arbitrary in the supply-demand equation for wages. If everyone pays more as you advocate, your employer will simply pay less, and vice versa.

The only thing your argument does is serve to give you a sense of entitlement through this fictional obligation.

[FeatherFall]

Here is another correction to one of my previous posts. The $.85 a run figure was actually an approximation of the mileage paid to drivers every run. We get reimbursed a third the cost of a gallon of gas. This was the case before the delivery fee (of which we get nothing) was added. The amount reimbursed is slightly higher than $.85 a gallon now.

While I think the tip custom is a little silly and people would probably be better off without it, I am not interested in putting forth the effort to change it. However, dealing with an industry that employs the tip custom while refusing to recognize the values gained by it is not a proper way to act. It is a tacit endorsement of the system. If you truly despise the system, don't patronize the establishments that participate in it. You will be paying slightly higher and less flexible prices for your services, while still having the option that exists in almost any industry; to tip for extraordinary service.

[Galileo Blogs]

Well, this debate is making me hungry enough at this early morning hour to order a pizza. The tip I give depends on where I order the pizza from. There is Due Amici which has good pizza and is about 75 feet away from the front door of my building, and then there is Lombardy's, which is about a mile away downtown near Little Italy. Lombardy's is the self-proclaimed first pizzeria in America and, in my opinion, has just about the best pizza I ever tasted. My block is just within the northern edge of their delivery zone.

I might tip the Due Amici guy a dollar because he's so close, but one thing is for sure. If I order from Lombardy's, I am giving him a good tip. I am a repeat customer there and I want to make damn sure my pizza is delivered quickly, rain or shine!

Whew, now I can address this topic, maybe for the last time! There are a number of interesting aspects to this discussion that have been raised.

BaseballGenius #1

They keep one copy and I bring the other back to the store. But on the one I bring to the store, there is a line indicating where to leave the tip. The stiffers leave this line blank. So would it be immoral for me to fill this line in despite their consent, and write in $1.00(for my tip)? Legal, no. But moral?

I finally went back to this original post. I agree with the other posters on this one that it would be immoral to write in a tip. Viewing this discussion in light of this scenario, tipping is clearly not an obligation in the legal sense.

But in the practical sense, do you want good service? If the answer is yes, you should tip, out of self-interest, which was my intention in describing my pizza scenario above. I never tip out of a guilty sense of obligation that I have to help the "little guy" because they are "underpaid". That is an objection to tipping raised by several posters. That is a red herring argument. If someone is tipping for that reason, they should stop immediately, unless they simply view it as a charitable act. I tip because I want a hot pizza or I want great restaurant service. For those of you who tip, don't you do it for that reason??

Kendall:

The custom [of tipping] is completely arbitrary in the supply-demand equation for wages. If everyone pays more as you advocate, your employer will simply pay less, and vice versa.

But tipping is an individual act. This statement is true on a broad, economic level, but on an individual level if you don't tip someone, he is going to feel stiffed, regardless of whether tipping is something you should do or not. It will take a lot of stiffing over time to change the wages one employer pays his waiters, let alone employers across the entire economy.

Kendall:

Custom provides a mental shortcut to a suggested practice, but I can't see anyway that it creates an obligation, other than out of a desire not to "appear" rude, which I would think is second handed.

It is not second-handed not to want to be rude. If tipping is an acceptable social custom, then not tipping in the customary manner is rude. If your point is that it is second-handed to tip when one does not think it is rude, but does it anyway because he is concerned about appearances, then I agree with you.

Moebius #33:

By the way I just got a job as a stock broker. And when my clients call me up asking me to place an order, I don't expect a tip, despite the fact that I'm providing a service. To me it's pretty much the same concept.

There was another comment which I can't find which distinguishes why tipping exists in a personal service industry like restaurants versus the situation Moebius describes. The point was that the nature of the personal service provided by a waiter is such that the customer is in the best position to evaluate a significant part of the waiter's work. That is why the customer effectively pays part of the waiter's wages. This is not true in the situation Moebius describes where the service provided is clear-cut. When I buy a product from a store, the service is clear-cut and I pay a fixed price. When I get a haircut or a restaurant meal, the service provided is highly personal to me and there are clearly many subtle, almost intangible factors that I alone am in the best position to appreciate. It seems almost silly to mention some examples, because I think this point should be clear, but I will mention a few anyway. For example, the barber trims your sideburns just right, the waitress cheerfully brings that extra water you asked for quickly, or that pizza arrived piping hot despite the snowstorm outside.

I would contend that from an economic point of view, it is the degree of personalization of service that answers why the custom of tipping emerged and why it applies to one endeavor and not others. There is nothing irrational in this. It is a custom that emerged for sound economic reasons. That does not mean that all tipping customs are rational. Those that aren't will die out or never truly take hold across the population. (Is pizza delivery one of those activities? Hell, I don't know. I will let a pizza economist write a doctoral dissertation on that one! I just know I don't have a problem with this custom.)

To further validate my economic hypothesis as to the origin of tipping, consider what it would be like if tipping did not happen. Let us assume that a restaurant manager declares that he is paying his waiters more to compensate for the lack of tips; tipping is forbidden at his restaurant. What would motivate the waiter to provide that extra measure of good service that you, alone, as the diner are in the best position to evaluate? In this situation, the waiter only has to show the boss he is providing good service. The boss does not observe all of the waiter-customer interactions going on. He simply sees his waiters efficiently bringing food back and forth from the kitchen to the tables. He doesn't hear the customer ask for water that is not being provided quickly. He doesn't hear the waiter listlessly recite the day's specials. He doesn't experience the joyless waiter who is a downer to the diners who are trying to enjoy their meal. Who is in the best position to evaluate these subtle aspects of waiter service? You, the diner! That is why you tip.

Now, to answer a few subsidiary questions that should be addressed by my hypothesis:

If I am correct, why is tipping ordinarily given at nearly every meal? Why shouldn't it be given only when there is exceptional service, with the employer paying the waiters more to cover the cost of the ordinary tips? My hypothesis answer is that the threat of not getting a tip is a highly effective method of motivating the waiter to provide the extra personal service I describe. Tipping really is a carrot and stick motivator, with the stick being a big part of the motivation. Since the customer has no legal obligation to tip, and can tip nothing at all, the waiter is motivated to provide decent service to avoid that outcome. Of course, on the carrot side, the waiter, if he is ambitious and energetic, will seek the extra large tip by providing exceptional service. (On a side note, there are stories in New York of regular patrons at some very expensive restaurants who have actually tipped their favorite waiters cars. I am not kidding. Now, I am not mentioning this to start up a thread on the morality of tipping cars to waiters!! )

The other question is, why is tipping customary in the United States but not so in many other countries (perhaps even most countries)? I think this is simply a matter of culture, and is not a particularly important issue. Take Japan, for example. It could be because their culture has a history of subservient service where peasants served feudal lords. Therefore, the typical Japanese enthusiastically provides good service. An analogous argument might apply to Europe. From my travels, I recall that in many of these countries, diners would simply leave excess change that didn't amount to much, but they would tip more for an extraordinary meal.

Regardless, as Americans we live in the culture we live in. Perhaps Americans aren't quite as used to "serving" as Europeans or Japanese are, and they need a little extra incentive. That is where tipping comes in. That leads me to my final thought. What happens if tipping dies out here? Does that mean the end of individualism and the onset of feudal subservience in America?

When I start asking questions like that, I know I am tired. I probably missed something here. Where's that pizza??!!

[Inspector]

If you truly despise the system, don't patronize the establishments that participate in it.

For the most part I don't. But a question: how do we know who participates in it and who does not? I mean unless it's like on Futurama where the pizza box says "Don't tip delivery boy" on it.

[John McVey]

Can someone explain to me why tipping is such a big deal in the US? Amongst the Europeans I can understand - despise, but still understand. I honestly thought Americans were supposed to be above what is implicit in the whole sordid deal!? In Australia we generally do NOT tip, and the service is none the worse for wear. We also jump into the front passenger seat of taxis and natter with the cabbie without batting an eyelid, which I hold as part of the same cultural idea underlying the objection to tipping. Conversely, foreigners who go for the backseat of Australian taxis are generally thought of as snobs.

Personally I am opposed to tipping on principle on the grounds that it is condescension on the part of the tipper and a thinly disguised shakedown on the part of the tippee. For the tipper, it is encouraging the old view of looking down upon service workers, straight out of old Victorian mores, along with noblesse oblige and hints of lording one's position over one's "lessers". BLEAGH! For the service worker, I am of the opinion that he or she is paid to do a job and bloody well better do the job properly for the agreed wage. If that worker wants more money then he or she should have the brass to front up to the boss for an explicit raise, and NOT give the customer any slightest grief, EVER.

Am I right in thinking this, or am I missing something?

JJM

[DavidOdden]

Can someone explain to me why tipping is such a big deal in the US?

Beats me. Americans always seem to be over-tipping in Europe in restaurants, but it's probably out of ignorance. I've heard that the tip in the US was raised to 20% from 15%, although I never got the memo. Probably it went the same place the memo went where they were supposed to inform me of my new obligation to tip the pizza boy. I guess we're supposed to tip the garbage man on Xmas, though I have no idea how.

We also jump into the front passenger seat of taxis and natter with the cabbie without batting an eyelid, which I hold as part of the same cultural idea underlying the objection to tipping.

Right; in NYC there may be a law against that, at any rate, there's the privacy thing which leads to back-seat behavior. The presence of a shield betwen the front and the back, found in a number of taxis, plus the driver's habit of spreading his stuff out in the front seat, probably encourages us to go towards the back.

For the tipper, it is encouraging the old view of looking down upon service workers, straight out of old Victorian mores, along with noblesse oblige and hints of lording one's position over one's "lessers".

On target. London cabs particularly help to reinforce that "servants in the front" view. True, it has become a conventional part of culture, and the underlying reason is rotten. We don't subcontract with waiters and pizze boys to provide services, and their service is part of the cost of the product. So why should I pay twice for the same thing?

[Moebius]

Moebius #33:

There was another comment which I can't find which distinguishes why tipping exists in a personal service industry like restaurants versus the situation Moebius describes. The point was that the nature of the personal service provided by a waiter is such that the customer is in the best position to evaluate a significant part of the waiter's work. That is why the customer effectively pays part of the waiter's wages. This is not true in the situation Moebius describes where the service provided is clear-cut. When I buy a product from a store, the service is clear-cut and I pay a fixed price. When I get a haircut or a restaurant meal, the service provided is highly personal to me and there are clearly many subtle, almost intangible factors that I alone am in the best position to appreciate. It seems almost silly to mention some examples, because I think this point should be clear, but I will mention a few anyway. For example, the barber trims your sideburns just right, the waitress cheerfully brings that extra water you asked for quickly, or that pizza arrived piping hot despite the snowstorm outside.

Actually as a stock broker, there's a big difference in service, depending on the promptness in which you enter the order, your timing in which you place the order, and the accuracy of the advices you give to investors.

As a crude example, if a customer wants a hundred shares of a small stock whose average daily trading volume is only 400-500, you can place the order all at once, although it's going to drive the prices much higher instantly, thereby increasing the price your clients pays. Or you can instead order 20 shares at a time, slowly eating up the shares at a lower price point. Both are methods are valid, and both have it's positives and negatives (such as price point vs promptness).

The point is my job is a SERVICE industry. I'm merely your agent that buys or sells something for you. Therefore your example of going into a store a buying a product is invalid. And I think in all service industries, there are intangible things that distinguishes good service and bad service. Yet they do not always require you to tip.

The standard for which we decide which jobs require a tip and which jobs doesn't seems completely arbitrary to me.

[Moebius]

The other question is, why is tipping customary in the United States but not so in many other countries (perhaps even most countries)? I think this is simply a matter of culture, and is not a particularly important issue. Take Japan, for example. It could be because their culture has a history of subservient service where peasants served feudal lords. Therefore, the typical Japanese enthusiastically provides good service. An analogous argument might apply to Europe. From my travels, I recall that in many of these countries, diners would simply leave excess change that didn't amount to much, but they would tip more for an extraordinary meal.

Regardless, as Americans we live in the culture we live in. Perhaps Americans aren't quite as used to "serving" as Europeans or Japanese are, and they need a little extra incentive. That is where tipping comes in. That leads me to my final thought. What happens if tipping dies out here? Does that mean the end of individualism and the onset of feudal subservience in America?

I've spent equal parts of my life both in Asia and in America. You're right in saying that the reasoning tipping is non-existent in Japan is probably because of their culture. Although I think it's more along the fact of their great emphasis on duty, and the fact that their culture encourages one to be the best you can be at what you do.

That and the fact that if you provide bad service, the employer can always fire you and get someone else.

American culture on the other hand I think has a prevalent sense of entitlement. We consider many things our "right", and that others "should" do things because I'm entitled to it.