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trust, forgiveness, aggression, stubbornness and the future

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Hi. I'm here for the marriage discussion. I was wondering what everyone though about a few things. Can I accept that he is not completely sorry for hurting me because I have hurt him in the past? Should I take the chance, that next time he hurts me, he will say again "I'm sorry but not that sorry, because you have hurt me in the past"? Can I forgive him when he's not that sorry? Has he forgiven me for the past? Should I accept that if I wrong him and frustrate him, he will be verbally aggressive - it's not the way I want to communicate, but should I take the bad with the good? Will I be able to be myself in the relationship if I'm trying to avoid getting shouted at?

He wants me to be more tidy before we move in together, and I was enjoying getting more tidy and organised but now he has said he won't have me until I am. I feel stubborn, and don't want to, because I feel like I'm being pushed and I'm not doing it for me and us not for him.

[corrected grammar and spelling: DO]

Edited by DavidOdden
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Welcome to the forum!

You might ask a moderator to move this to the relationships subforum: http://forum.ObjectivismOnline.com/index.php?showforum=72

I think you would do better there. This topic doesn't really fit in with the intended purpose of this forum.

(edited to replace erroneous POST link with the correct TOPIC link)

Edited by Nate
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Without specifics being known:

If you have hurt him in the past and he hasn't forgiven you enough not to feel like the fact that you hurt him gives him license to hurt you, then you really shouldn't be together as that is not the proper foundation for a relationship. Relationships should be about the enjoyment of each other, not trying to get away with things and using past wrongdoings as some sort of justification for sadism.

On a more general note:

Should I take the chance, that next time he hurts me, he will say again "I'm sorry but not that sorry, because you have hurt me in the past"? Can I forgive him when he's not that sorry? Has he forgiven me for the past

Your standard of forgiveness should not be that the other person is sorry. Forgiveness should be granted only when the other person shows remorse AND a committment to preventing the same mistake from occuring again, only when you are sure that the other person UNDERSTANDS how and why they were wrong and that they mean to correct it for the future is it proper to forgive them, their being sorry(but not sorry enough) definately does not cut it.

Should I accept that if I wrong him and frustrate him, he will be verbally aggressive - it's not the way I want to communicate, but should I take the bad with the good? Will I be able to be myself in the relationship if I'm trying to avoid getting shouted at?

No. You should never accept another person's emotional outbursts and screaming in the context of romantic communication, not as a proper way of dealing with your issues. Emotions are good at the identification of how your partner is feeling, and he should be allowed to show his anger, BUT he must be given the time to cool down and when he is cooled off HE MUST be willing to talk reasonably and calmly about why he was feeling angry, and how you two will work that issue out. If his emotional outbursts are so prevalent as to keep you constantly on edge, then you need to talk with him about YOUR feelings CALMLY, and explain to him that while it is ok for him to become angry, it is not okay for him to treat his anger as an unquestionable fact of life. If this doesn't work, and you feel that rational calm discussion is immpossible with him, then you should end the relationship, if you value yourself.

He wants me to be more tidy before we move in together, and I was enjoying getting more tidy and organised but now he has said he won't have me until I am. I feel stubborn, and don't want to, because I feel like I'm being pushed and I'm not doing it for me and us not for him.

Doing things "for yourself" does not necessitate that others wouldn't want it too. It is possible and proper for your selfish actions to benefit others, they need not be at another's expense to be "for you." I suspect that you have some resentment toward him and are wanting to not be tidy just to spite him. If that's the case, if your motivations for your actions are to either please another or to displease another, is anything you do really "for you?"

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  • 2 weeks later...

I think my partner/expartner has BPD-

"A pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships, self-image, and affects, and marked impulsivity beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:"

He breaks up with me when things get tough

"1. frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5."

He change our relationship to open when i said i was afraid of how i would cope in an adult relationship

" 2. a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation."

He gets angry, uses derogatory language, tells me to [censored] off and never come back, then calls be hours or day later as if theres no problem. Sometimes he loves so much he would do anything for me sometimes it seems he really hates me

" 3. identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self."

He has low self esteem, sometimes he says hes an idiot or a mug

" 4. impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating). Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5."

He was unfaithful alot in his past relationship raraely using condoms, he frequaently abuses alchohol and drugs

" 5. recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior "

He has stated he wishes to kill himself and that he will if he contracts HIV

" 6. affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days). "

He goes through fases, can be very elated or VERY low, angry ect.

" 7. chronic feelings of emptiness "

I would say he feels empty in the in metween times-he calls it numb, deal inside, not careing

" 8. inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights) "

He is controlled buy his anger when he is angry, he can be angry for days it seems there is an underlying anger with him all the time-he has asked me not to "scrat the surface", he dosent take responsibility for his actions-blames me for making him angry ect

"9. transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms"

sometimes says he beleves im lying to him sometimes or i dont love him im just useing him, dosent understand what i see in him "why dont you go find someone with more money"ect. "pushes things down" to forget about them

http://www.borderlinepersonalitytoday.com/main/dsmiv.htm

He is sometimes lovely-when he nice his very very nice but when hes not hes horrid!

He and his gp dont think he needs anything more that tablets which he has been on for months now.

I think his insite into his state of mind is poor and he has alot to work on.

What do you think?

I wish he could be properly assesed but he thinks that the pills and thinking about stuff to himself will sort him out, its been months now..

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What do you think?

I think that people with serious psychological disorders to deal with, do not have a mental state conducive to a healthy long term romantic relationship. I remember someone saying once that "in order to say 'I love you', one must first learn to say 'I' "

From your discription He has not learned to say I.

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