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It's been a few years since I've actively been engaged in an online forum (save for Livejournal, which I suppose could count), so it's refreshing to come across one that seems semi-active, and especially one where everyone is united under a common interest other than boredom.

My name's Catherine, and since discovering Ayn Rand a year ago (my senior year in high school), I've been completely transformed. Having been raised a Roman Catholic (12 years of private school!!), it was an extremely difficult transition for me. I'd always been an arguer - so accepting that everything should be based on LOGIC was no trouble for me. Abandoning altruism was much more difficult, but reflecting on it, not too hard, either.

My hobbies include non-fiction writing and photography, sewing, reading (which goes without saying??) and web/graphic design, though I'm trying to tap into more creative hobbies such as fiction-writing. I love anime/manga passionately, and occasionally I read graphic novels too. I'm in college right now, planning to major in Japanese, hopefully with a minor in animation.

I must say I was very excited to see that under the art forum, there was a separate category for "video games". I wasn't aware that there were many other objectivists who considered the potentiality of "art" in videogame design, so it's refreshing to see that other people have the same progressive views as well.

I look forward to posting! (Sorry, all of this was typed very quickly, not to mention I'm exhausted, so please excuse/correct any grammatical/spelling errors I may have made).

[Mod's note: I split some posts to a new thread comparing the creative-processes in writing Fiction and non-Fiction. sn]

Edited by softwareNerd
Added thread-split annotation.
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Hello and welcome, Catherine! I hope you get a lot of value from the forum.

I wasn't aware of a discussion here concerning high aesthetic merit in video games. However, I think it's an interesting topic. It's been a while since I read it, but for you and anyone interested, film critic Roger Ebert recently sparked a discussion and debate on video games as art following his review of the movie Doom (based on the original ground-breaking video game). This was the chronology:

Original Answer Man column responses: #1, #2, and #3

E-mail response collections: #1, #2, and #3

Josh Korr from St. Petersburg Times

Edited by JASKN
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Welcome to the forum!

I also first read Ayn Rand (Atlas Shrugged) in high school and became an Objectivist after being intensely religious (although in a way that was fiercely independent and more rational than one would expect). It's been a tough transition, but not in ways one might expect - looking back a couple years down the road, I see my biggest problem really is retooling all the bad mental habits my mind has developed, which is something Rand wrote about.

Oh, also, I might as well tell you, because otherwise someone else probably will - first, capitalize "Objectivism," and second, read the forum rules, just in case.

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Welcome to the forum. I hope you enjoy your time here. How did you find out about Ayn Rand and Objectivism? I found out from my best friend (he is also my cousin).

My hobbies include non-fiction writing... though I'm trying to tap into more creative hobbies such as fiction-writing.

I am more of a fiction writer that is just getiuing into non-fiction writing myself.

I must say I was very excited to see that under the art forum, there was a separate category for "video games". I wasn't aware that there were many other objectivists who considered the potentiality of "art" in videogame design, so it's refreshing to see that other people have the same progressive views as well.

Of course video game are a form of art, though not the most interesting to me on a personal level. The most interesitng to me on a personal level would be writing. Writing is not only a hobby for me, but something that I intend to make a carrier out of.

Oh, also, I might as well tell you, because otherwise someone else probably will - first, capitalize "Objectivism," and second, read the forum rules, just in case.

Indeed. BrassDragon is correct. Objectivism and Objectivists are both proper nouns. With a few rare exceptions, such as summer, autumn, spring, and winter, proper nouns are meant to be capitalised.

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Hi, welcome to the forum. I'm not sure whether I agree that video games constitute an actual art form, but I'm not a professional aesthetician so my ideas on that are pretty informal. I'd say rather that they are a work that is made up of numerous small works of art and artistry, much like a web page isn't a work of art even though it may be very artistic in its setup and contain many individual works of art. A video game is more like a gallery of art.

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Hi, welcome to the forum. I'm not sure whether I agree that video games constitute an actual art form, but I'm not a professional aesthetician so my ideas on that are pretty informal. I'd say rather that they are a work that is made up of numerous small works of art and artistry, much like a web page isn't a work of art even though it may be very artistic in its setup and contain many individual works of art. A video game is more like a gallery of art.

Perhaps we'd need a new thread for this, but I think a video game can definitely be a work of art - a selective re-creation of reality. I've often felt spiritually exalted when playing video games, much as one can when reading a good book or watching a great film. And video games (potentially) share a lot of qualities with other genres - film and visual art (obviously), novels (characters, plot, setting, etc.).

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Perhaps we'd need a new thread for this, but I think a video game can definitely be a work of art - a selective re-creation of reality. I've often felt spiritually exalted when playing video games, much as one can when reading a good book or watching a great film. And video games (potentially) share a lot of qualities with other genres - film and visual art (obviously), novels (characters, plot, setting, etc.).

I agree with you, BrassDragon. Of course I have the same high standards for video games as other forms of art.

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Thanks for the heads up! I usually do capitalize both words, but every now-and-then I don't. I'll make a conscious effort to do so here-on-out. :thumbsup:

A friend of mine introduced me to Ayn Rand (I admit, I'd never even heard her name before!) through my journal. I'd been posting a lot about philosophy/my own ideological ideas, and he knew Objectivism was the answer I had been looking for. There are a few other people who claim they introduced me (and now use it against me), but really he is the only one to whom I'm indebted.

I have to admit I was sort of terrible at religion, and actually claimed to be agnostic before reading Atlas Shrugged. Still, it was nice to read something that condoned atheism, especially when I was surrounded by people who claimed absence of religion meant absence of morality.

Video games too, are not immensely interesting to me; I tend to get bored pretty quickly. I prefer reading over any other art form, but that is just my personal preference!

Edit And someone should certainly make a thread about it! I've gotten into lengthy discussions about the topic before - a video game is a selective recreation of reality, it is engaging in the same respects as a book, movie, or other form of art (requires contemplation), among several other things.

Edited by Catherine
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In a sense, video games may be where the next 'Rearden Metal' will start.

While I'm not much of a gamer or anything, a lot of what I want to do with my life will start in the videogame industry (things like neuron impulses being read by a comp chip to send output to a computer or visual input being sent directly to the visual cortex).

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I'm in college right now, planning to major in Japanese, hopefully with a minor in animation.
That's a nice combination. What do you want to do when you get out? Welcome to the forum :)

I wasn't aware that there were many other objectivists who considered the potentiality of "art" in videogame design, so it's refreshing to see that other people have the same progressive views as well.
Ditto, I think that's one of those new frontiers that hasn't been tapped very much yet.

I wasn't aware of a discussion here concerning high aesthetic merit in video games. However, I think it's an interesting topic.
Indeed!

It's been a while since I read it, but for you and anyone interested, film critic Roger Ebert recently sparked a discussion and debate on video games as art following his review of the movie Doom (based on the original ground-breaking video game).
I think Ebert (and a lot of other stuffyheads for that matter) vastly underestimate the aesthetic significance and potential of video game. 'Course, I am biased :thumbsup::D

Edit: response to Jenni

I'd say rather that [video games] are a work that is made up of numerous small works of art and artistry, much like a web page isn't a work of art even though it may be very artistic in its setup and contain many individual works of art. A video game is more like a gallery of art.
Hmm, that is food for thought. But movies might also be said to be composed of numerous works of art, and yet they qualify as arts themselves. On another note, while I don't think most games qualify as art, I think some existing games might and certainly think that some in the future will qualify. Edited by hunterrose
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Welcome to the forum Catherine, I look forward to seeing what you have to add, espeically on the subject of video games. The forum could do with a bit on this subject. In fact I second what Hunterrose says about it being somewhat of an interesting frontier.

I plan to make a computer game of my own one day, an eductional one. So I have been learning a bit about it in advance. It is proving a highly interesting thing to study and there are some great tools out there. Especially Microsofts XNA Game Studio (perhaps better for smaller less demanding games) and Games Factory (yet again probably not best for the most complex games despite what the creators say), and I am sure many other tools that I am yet unaware of.

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And from what he has told me of it I would say it would be art, i.e., a selective recreation of his metaphysical values.

Hey dont put words in my mouth :-P.

Ok, seriously: Yes indeed it will be somewhat. And there might actually turn out to be too games: both the same general idea, but with different "themes" and serving to educate the players about different subjects (while still being somewhat entertaning).

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Hey dont put words in my mouth :-P.

I was not. I was saying I would say it is art, not you said, i.e., I was putting words is my mouth, not yours.

Ok, seriously: Yes indeed it will be somewhat. And there might actually turn out to be too games: both the same general idea, but with different "themes" and serving to educate the players about different subjects (while still being somewhat entertaning).

Interesting. Tell me about it in Windows Live Messenger sometime.

Edited by DragonMaci
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Welcome to the forums Catherine.

Glad to see your interest in Japanese and Video Games or I guess partial interest in video games. :)

I'm half Japanese and a game director.

As for anyone that says video games are not art just talk to me, I am one of many proofs that video games are art. There are multiple things which define whether something is art or not. An artist is one of them.

I've put multiple years of my life into multiple shipped games. I've put myself into them. I have created fictional places and places that exist in reality using my knowledge of art, design, philosophy, and programming. Although I am just one of many who helped created these games it does not negate the fact that the games are art.

Now I can see the difference between what I call "high art" and art but I can also name a few games I consider both masterpieces and high art. I haven't worked on any games I consider a masterpiece but they're all still art in my mind.

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