Kori Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 I was browsing the web tonight and I learned that the Pyramid at Giza is the only remaining of the 7 Ancient Wonders. I then realized...hey, I don't even know what the other 7 wonders are! So, I went-a-researchin' and I found out that there is an election for the New 7 Wonders of the World. There are 21 final contenders: The Acropolis at Athens Alhambra Angkor The Pyramid at Chichen Itza Christ Redeemer The Roman Colosseum Statues of Easter Island The Eiffel Tower The Great Wall of China The Hagia Sophia Kiyomizu Temple The Kremlin and Red Square Machu Picchu Neuschwanstein Castle Petra The Pyramids of Giza The Statue of Liberty Stonehenge Sydney Opera House The Taj Mahal Timbuktu What would your choice be? As far as I'm concerned, these are all amazing...it's too hard to choose. I am glad to see a lot of man-made structures on the list, because those are always more awe-inspiring for me. You can learn more about these wonders (I still am!) at this site: The New 7 Wonders As of right now, there is still 35 days left to vote. The winner will be announced on 7/7/07 (how clever!) DO IT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maarten Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 I am glad to see a lot of man-made structures on the list, because those are always more awe-inspiring for me. I'm pretty sure the last 7 wonders of the world were also man-made Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdiamond Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 Okay? I didn't know the seven wonders were also democratically elected! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kori Posted June 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 I'm pretty sure the last 7 wonders of the world were also man-made Did I say that they weren't? I suppose I had the 7 Natural Wonders of the World on my mind when I wrote that. Now, instead of nitpicking my initial post, why don't you tell us what your choices would be and why? Right now, although it isn't the most amazing thing in the WORLD, my favorite on the list is St. Basil's Cathedral. Just absolutely astounding architecture. Okay? I didn't know the seven wonders were also democratically elected! How would they have been chosen before? It's better, in my opinion, to have them democratically elected than to have some ancient dude just pick them himself. The list is sort of a silly idea and, of course, just because 'the people' chose the Seven Wonders doesn't mean that they are the MOST wonderful things EVER! It's just interesting, I think, to look at all these marvels and...MARVEL at them. They're all amazing. Any additions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidOdden Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 These sorts of lists are pretty meaningless if you don't state the basis of your wonderment. Why exactly should we be in wonder about Red Square and The Kremlin? Was it particularly challenging to build at the time? Do we think it expreses the highest aesthetic values of rational men? I wouldn't list Macchu Picchu on the latter grounds, but I might consider listing it on the "difficult construction, given the circumstances" grounds. I don't see any basis for listing Timbuktu, without also listing the US Interstate Highway system. I propose that all of the primitive entries be stricken -- the Great Wall of China, Stonehenge, Easter Island, Petra. Focus on some kind of rational basis for appreciation. The Statue of Liberty, for the vision of America that it expresses; the Acropolis as an expression of the greatness that was Ancient Greece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMeganSnow Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 I vote for the Statue of Liberty and the Hoover Dam as far as the U.S. goes. Maybe the Brooklyn Bridge (great difficulty in building) or the Golden Gate Bridge (looks really sweet). We don't have the tallest skyscraper any more, but I think that whichever building is the tallest should be on the list. What about the space station? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'kian Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 From memory, the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World included: The pyramids of Giza The Colosus of Rhodes The Hanging Gardens of babylon The Lighthouse at Alexandria The statute of Zeus at Olympia and according to Wikipedia: The Temple of Artemis at Ephesus and The Mausoleum of Maussollos at Halicarnassus (I think this should be known as the Tomb of Mausollos, since the wrod "mausoleum," indicating a splendid grave, probably is derived from it). These were all great works of architecture and engineering. The Lighthouse at Alexandria, also known as the Pharos, served to guide ships into one of the great commercial and intellectual centers of all time. It was so tall that even by today's standards it would qualify as a skyscraper. And it lasted well over a thousand years. That is, in every sense of the word, wonderful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kori Posted June 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 Okay, I don't see an "edit" option for the posts, so I'll do this in a separate post. I copy/pasted my original post from another site that I posted it on and the link did not transfer to this site. The New Seven Wonders site is: New 7 Wonders. DavidOdden, is there not a rational basis for appreciation of the Great Wall? Just because it's "primitive" doesn't mean that it's not wonderful. I do agree that there should be more modern marvels on there, such as the Interstate system you mentioned or, as someone on another forum mentioned, The Internet! What a marvel that is! I don't think that the list can be narrowed down to 7...there are so many wonders in the world. I just have a good time talking about them. You also make a good point, David, about stating the basis for your wonderment. I really don't know much about the history of St. Basil's Cathedral, so my wonderment stems merely from seeing pix of it (I don't know if it was hard to construct, etc). I've never seen anything like it. I am going into architecture and when I took a gander at St. Basil's I pictured myself in front of my AutoCAD trying to design something like this and then bring it to life. Planning out all the shapes and what colors they would be, making the colors coordinate, all the intricate details. I think my eyes would just fall outta my skull. I am more of a simplistic kinda gal...and the details of this masterpiece just floored me. I could never design such a thing. One thing I would add to the list would be The Terracotta Army. Also, there is a thread floatin' around here that shows the building with rotating floors. That's gotta be one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemuel Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 What about the space station? While this is an unprecedented achievement, it is achieved amid great bureaucracy, and outmoded thinking regarding modern technological capabilities for space travel. Even though it's not an architectural structure or statue, I'd go for Burt Rutan's SpaceshipOne before I'd go for the ISS: SpaceShipOne's design innovations include a wing that folds up during spaceflight and works as a brake on reentry, and a pressurized cabin. On a videotape at Air and Space, the designer recalls with a decisive snap of his fingers the moment he knew "I had it." As a design model, the feathers of the shuttlecock were "really out there," Rutan says, and he acknowledged the possibility that "we are absolutely crazy." I'm with you 100% on the Statue of Liberty & the Hoover Dam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidOdden Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 DavidOdden, is there not a rational basis for appreciation of the Great Wall? Just because it's "primitive" doesn't mean that it's not wonderful.Just because it's big doesn't mean it is wonderful. So now, what exactly is it that makes a structure "wonderful"? What about various houses designed by Frank Lloyd Wright? They aren't as big as the Great Wall, but still, you can appreciate most Wright structures. You can totally automatically include ever cathedral built up to say 1900, because these are all big impressive structures. Every last castle in Western Europe; millions (well, thousands) of temples and palaces in East Asia. All I'm asking for is an actual answer to the question"What ought to be the basis for marvelling?". The answer to that question can't be a counter-question "Isn't there a basis for marvelling at X" (for any X). It should be a description of those things we should marvel at -- appreciate, on the basis of [___]. Now, my reason for not being particularly impressed by the Great Wall is that it was not such a great achievement. It was not, from what I know, a wonderful engineering accomplishment and it does not reflect the highest aspirations of man -- rather, it reflects the basic fear of man and the most primitive response to that fear. Rather than start from the assumption that there simply must be "marvels" out there, I think it's more useful to identify what such a thing would be -- how do you identify one? Is it just size? From that, you can probably get to concrete instances. If you can't sort out what makes something a "wonder", I don't see how the discussion can do beyond opinion-expressing, and we know that unsubstantiated opinions are a dime a dozen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert J. Kolker Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 Now, my reason for not being particularly impressed by the Great Wall is that it was not such a great achievement. It was not, from what I know, a wonderful engineering accomplishment and it does not reflect the highest aspirations of man -- rather, it reflects the basic fear of man and the most primitive response to that fear. Rather than start from the assumption that there simply must be "marvels" out there, I think it's more useful to identify what such a thing would be -- how do you identify one? Is it just size? From that, you can probably get to concrete instances. If you can't sort out what makes something a "wonder", I don't see how the discussion can do beyond opinion-expressing, and we know that unsubstantiated opinions are a dime a dozen. Building the Great Wall was a vast undertaking. The co-ordination of the activities, the maintenance of the labor force (food, water, tools, materials) and keeping track of the work indicates a high degree of managerial skill. The same could also be said of the Great Pyramid of KuFu. Two million gigantic granite blocks all put together with precision is no mean feat and it was done without any help from computers. The management organization had to be hierarchical and articulated. There had to be "just in time" aspects to the work. In modern times the projects that had that magnitude of complexity and managerial challenge was the Apollo Project. Five hundred thousand tasks had to be co-ordinated. The vast array of tasks was organized by PERT charts and Gannt Diagrams. No such things existed in ancient times which makes the completion of their major tasks all the more impressive. The Great Wall of China was the Maginot Line of its day, and like the modern Maginot Line if failed of its purpose. It did not keep the undesirables out. Bob Kolker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kori Posted June 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 Just because it's big doesn't mean it is wonderful. So now, what exactly is it that makes a structure "wonderful"? What about various houses designed by Frank Lloyd Wright? They aren't as big as the Great Wall, but still, you can appreciate most Wright structures. You can totally automatically include ever cathedral built up to say 1900, because these are all big impressive structures. Every last castle in Western Europe; millions (well, thousands) of temples and palaces in East Asia. All I'm asking for is an actual answer to the question"What ought to be the basis for marvelling?". The answer to that question can't be a counter-question "Isn't there a basis for marvelling at X" (for any X). It should be a description of those things we should marvel at -- appreciate, on the basis of [___]. Now, my reason for not being particularly impressed by the Great Wall is that it was not such a great achievement. It was not, from what I know, a wonderful engineering accomplishment and it does not reflect the highest aspirations of man -- rather, it reflects the basic fear of man and the most primitive response to that fear. Rather than start from the assumption that there simply must be "marvels" out there, I think it's more useful to identify what such a thing would be -- how do you identify one? Is it just size? From that, you can probably get to concrete instances. If you can't sort out what makes something a "wonder", I don't see how the discussion can do beyond opinion-expressing, and we know that unsubstantiated opinions are a dime a dozen. Did I ever state that I thought the Great Wall was wonderful "just because it's big"? Bob Kolker beat me to it. Another thing I found "wonderful" about the Great Wall was that its construction spanned about 2,000 years (if I recall correctly) and the progression of the construction shows progression in technology. Initially, the wall was built out of whatever the builders could find: earth, sand, pebbles, grass. Later, during the Ming dynasty, the builders used stone and brick, which made the wall studier and longer lasting. I started this discussion for people to express their opinions. I didn't intend to start a debate on what qualifies something as a "wonder." I think it's really a matter of opinion. Someone may have a good reason for why Stonehenge is a wonder...I personally don't think it's such a great site, but I'm interested in hearing why someone else considers it one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidOdden Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 Did I ever state that I thought the Great Wall was wonderful "just because it's big"?No, in fact you gave no reason whatsoever to support your conclusion that it is a "wonder". I'm just trying to fathom why one would want to think that the Great Wall is all that great. Now should I conclude that your admiration is due to the fact that it was a large bureaucratic government project? Shouldn't the Berlin Wall be one of those great wonders, put up literally overnight? Or does the fact that it was done quickly and efficiently disqualify if from "wonder" status?I started this discussion for people to express their opinions. I didn't intend to start a debate on what qualifies something as a "wonder." I think it's really a matter of opinion.I understand that you are just trying to collect emotional reactions; and I'm just trying to point out that the question has an irrational premise. When I said that the Great Wall should be stricken from the list, I was expressing my opinion (one based in reason, but that's not a requirement, given your intent to survey). But given that you are, by your own admission, only interested in people expressing their emotions, it is inappropriate to challenge my statement. You cannot have it both ways. Either you silently and unquestioningly accept that I have expressed an opinion and you will say nothing more about the rightness or wrongness of my opinion, or else you actually delve into the question of what a rational basis for wonderment would be. Mercy sakes, are you really proposing that it is a "great accomplishment" to take two millenia to build a wall? Well, then, Damascus is probably the greatest wonder in the world, because it has been under construction for about 14,000 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert J. Kolker Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 you really proposing that it is a "great accomplishment" to take two millenia to build a wall? Well, then, Damascus is probably the greatest wonder in the world, because it has been under construction for about 14,000 years. What is your opinion of the Great Pyramid of Kufu (from a construction and engineering p.o.v.) It was built over a 25 year period. I have a low opinion of its -purpose-, i.e. a big burial chamber for Pharo Kufu. But the project did require first rate logistics and managerial skill all without the aid of computers. Ditto question for the Roman Colosseum. From an ethical point of view it was an Abomination. From an engineering point of view it was a tour de force. Ditto question for the Roman water delivery systems. Bob Kolker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldiemaz Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 My vote goes to Kiyomizu Temple. It's beautiful. I felt like I was in another world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fivera Posted October 7, 2007 Report Share Posted October 7, 2007 So who were the winners? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kori Posted October 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2007 Finals: Taj Mahal Petra Machu Picchu Great Wall of China Colosseum Chichen Itza Christ Redeemer New 7 Wonders (lots of info about it on this site) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_aver Posted October 7, 2007 Report Share Posted October 7, 2007 Hey, where's McDonald's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEgoist Posted October 7, 2007 Report Share Posted October 7, 2007 As a proud American I was really pulling for the Statue of Liberty...Curse you, whoever it is that votes for these things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert J. Kolker Posted October 7, 2007 Report Share Posted October 7, 2007 As a proud American I was really pulling for the Statue of Liberty...Curse you, whoever it is that votes for these things It is a big copper statue and it was made by the French, anyway. If the Colosis of Rhodes did not make the cut, why should the Statue of Liberty? Bob Kolker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kori Posted October 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2007 Everyone voted for these things, all across the world. If you'd seen this thread months ago you coulda voted too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve D'Ippolito Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 It is a big copper statue and it was made by the French, anyway. If the Colosis of Rhodes did not make the cut, why should the Statue of Liberty? Bob Kolker The Collosus of Rhodes was one of the traditional seven ancient wonders. It also isn't around anymore, which would handicap it horribly in any modern vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fivera Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 Finals: Taj Mahal Petra Machu Picchu Great Wall of China Colosseum Chichen Itza Christ Redeemer New 7 Wonders (lots of info about it on this site) thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moebius Posted October 12, 2007 Report Share Posted October 12, 2007 Finals: Taj Mahal Petra Machu Picchu Great Wall of China Colosseum Chichen Itza Christ Redeemer Wow. Almost exactly the same as my choices - minus Christ the Redeemer and add the Kiyomizu Temple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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