airborne Posted June 25, 2007 Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 I'm up to pg. 1023 in Atlas Shrugged and I hit something challenging. "If there are degrees of evil, it is hard to say who is the more contemptible: the brute who assumes the right to force the mind of others or the moral degenerate who grants to other the right to force his mind. That is the moral absolute one does not leave open to debate". So from what I can extract/understand paying taxes would make me a moral degenerate? I read up on some other posts claiming that the payment of taxes could not be considered immoral because you have a gun pointed to you. Makes sense. But that means I'm just a neutral moral degenerate? Love, Airborne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidOdden Posted June 25, 2007 Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 So from what I can extract/understand paying taxes would make me a moral degenerate?No, granting others the right to take the unearned would make you morally degenerate. We'd need to look deeper into your character to find out if you're a moral degenerate. Have you figured out a non-sacrificial way to not actually pay taxes? Like, living live on the lam in the back woods is one way, but then you have to sacrifice many of the good things of life. Trading a higher value for a lesser value is also immoral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airborne Posted June 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 No, granting others the right to take the unearned would make you morally degenerate. We'd need to look deeper into your character to find out if you're a moral degenerate. Have you figured out a non-sacrificial way to not actually pay taxes? Like, living live on the lam in the back woods is one way, but then you have to sacrifice many of the good things of life. Trading a higher value for a lesser value is also immoral. Isn't paying taxes, granting the man with a gun the right to unearned profit? I don't see any room for escaping the fact that we are moral degenerates according to that quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galileo Blogs Posted June 25, 2007 Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 Being forced to do something takes it out of the realm of morality. There is nothing wrong at all in handing over your wallet to a mugger who demands it at the price of your life. The same principle applies to paying taxes, which is compulsory under threat of legal sanction. The Atlas Shrugged quote refers not to someone who is forced to give up his property who at the same time morally denounces it as theft. Rather, it refers to someone who approves of the theft of his property. Perhaps a modern-day example is Warren Buffett who supports taxes on inheritances or other wealthy people who support progressive income taxes. To use the tax example, I am moral if I pay taxes under threat of force, but I would be immoral if I then turned around and wrote an editorial extolling the virtues of compulsory taxation! Morality only applies where one has the freedom to choose. Compulsion negates morality. An action under compulsion is neither moral nor immoral. Taxes fall in that category. However, one still must consider one's self-interest in the decision whether to comply with the law and pay taxes. As pointed out by DavidOdden, it would be self-sacrificial to live a life of poverty in the woods just in order to avoid paying taxes. The benefits of living lawfully in a prosperous and largely free society, even if it means having to obey immoral laws such as taxation, should be clear. Of course, if you can think of a way to not pay taxes and be free and prosperous, let me know!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrocktor Posted June 25, 2007 Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 Isn't paying taxes, granting the man with a gun the right to unearned profit? Do you morally blame the victim for a robbery? You are only morally reponsible for what you do of your own free will. There are certainly better and worse ways to react to taxation, but you must keep in mind that however you react - it is the government's fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airborne Posted June 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 A rich man is the so called "moral degenerate" according to Objectivism if he supports taxes(guns/force). And it cant be argued that he does it out of free-will, even if he wants to pay the taxes. Because if he changed his mind he still would be forced to pay. I understand the significance of that quote now. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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