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History of Compulsory Schooling

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vendetta

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Great video!

Speaking of education...

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=07...;show_article=1

Please let me know your point of view on this ruling. It just doesn't sit well with me. If he had been on school property or something to that effect, maybe, but he was standing on the side of the road watching the Olympic torch pass by. Should our youth be punished for speaking freely outside of the classroom? (It's my understanding that this ruling extends to students' myspace pages and expressions of that nature as well.)

The Youtube video, rulings like this and the state of youth and education in this country, in general, make me glad I don't have kids. :dough:

Edited by K-Mac
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If he had been on school property or something to that effect, maybe, but he was standing on the side of the road watching the Olympic torch pass by.
Yet another argument against public education and compulsory education. For the record, though, this was an event "at school", during school hours and as part of an officially sanctioned and supervised school event (relevant because the students were not legally permitted to be "on the street" without permission from the school), and it was not on private property. Were this a private school, there is no question that the student could be permanently expelled.
It's my understanding that this ruling extends to students' myspace pages and expressions of that nature as well.
That is not my understanding, but these things are hard to understand. The decision is here, and I find nothing that could support such an extension, but I could have missed it.
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That is not my understanding, but these things are hard to understand. The decision is here, and I find nothing that could support such an extension, but I could have missed it.

Thank you for the clarification on the ruling. I had missed the part about it being a school-sponsored event.

Although myspace.com was not specifically ruled on, school districts are taking the ruling to mean that schools who are punishing students for comments they make on myspace.com are in the clear. (There have been issues with students being suspended for drug-related, sexually explicit/oriented or threatening comments on myspace.com.)

I am conflicted on the whole myspace issue anyway. Surely if a child is making threats to kill another, for example, there must be some repercussions, but should it come from the school or law enforcement, or from the parents? And with so many obviously irresponsible parents, are we obligated to give our rights away to the State?

I guess it all goes back to David's comment about this being yet another problem with public education.

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From what I can gather, the hook is that schools can restrict speech, including that of students, if that speech is "reasonably" perceived as some kind of threat or danger to students in the school's care, and only when the speech occurs within the school's dominion. Because the poster was at a school-sponsored event, it was within the school's dominion, and "reasonably" threatened the "health, safety and morals" (to steal a common phrase from a different, but related, context) of the other students by encouraging illegal, and perhaps unhealthy, behavior. (I'll have to look through the whole ruling again to see if it was the illegality or unhealthiness of the proposed activity that posed a danger to other students.) Myspace pages are not confined to the school's dominion, so the ruling doesn't apply to them. Content on such pages may "reasonably" pose a threat the students, but the school is not entitled to dictate or edit the content. Presumably it is entitled to block Myspace access on school computers, or to dictate the content of school-owned websites.

Actually, I wonder how such a ruling affects school newspapers. I don't know enough about school newspaper First Amendment issues to be able to say whether this expands the scope of school authority over newspaper content or not. I vaguely remember some high-profile cases, but cannot recall the outcomes.

All in all, the ruling is just more rationalization intended to evade the contradiction between individual rights and public schools.

-Q

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I agree with the videos point. I think Public education is a terrible injustice to taxpayers and students alike. That being said, I think the video was poorly done. It was long on emotion and short on facts. To make matters worse, they used a quote from one of the Columbine killers to help prove their point. It was clear from the context that they agreed with this nihilistic murderer.

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I agree with the videos point. I think Public education is a terrible injustice to taxpayers and students alike. That being said, I think the video was poorly done. It was long on emotion and short on facts. To make matters worse, they used a quote from one of the Columbine killers to help prove their point. It was clear from the context that they agreed with this nihilistic murderer.

I understand what you're saying about the emotional aspect of the video, but I see it from both sides. It is an emotionally-charged issue and although we should think rationally about the facts and a resolution, I really don't think many people would watch the video or have any interest in it had they shown just the facts through a boring presentation.

I was a bit shocked to see the Columbine shooter quote, but I think it was used, not to glorify or justify the killings or the killer, but rather to illustrate the frustration that many students are feeling about the current situation of our dead-end, public school system. I was one of those kids who wore black to school everyday and sought to rebel against everything the mainstream crowd accepted as normal. Although I never once had any feelings or thoughts of killing anyone, I had quite a bit of animosity about the politics of the school system and the deep divisions among the student population. (Not to mention the high-as-hell property taxes my parents were struggling to pay...Texas has among the highest in the nation.) Looking back, I realize I was just immature and that was my way of dealing with my frustration, but as an adult, I realize that there were many things about public school to legitimately rebel against. (I am still not sure how I thought wearing black everyday was going to solve anything.) :P

The question I have is this...my brother wanted to send his kids to a private school to get a classical education, but the costs were just too high. I suppose if the public school system were done away with and he had his property taxes refunded to him, he may have been able to afford it, but from an Objectivist's point of view, what is the ideal version of an education?

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I don't think it is wrong to bring emotion into the equation, (if public schools don't get you mad, I don't know what will), but those emotions need to be based on facts which are presented. Otherwise you don't have an argument, you have a smear campaign.

I don't think there is an ideal education from the Objectivist point of view; aside from saying that there is no government involvement at any level. There are more than a few Objectivists who run Montessori schools, or schools that are very similar.

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I don't think there is an ideal education from the Objectivist point of view; aside from saying that there is no government involvement at any level.
Keeping the government out of schools is a political issue. Even if schools were all private, Objectivists would probably find much that is objectionable. For instance, a private school, run on the principles of "Progressive" education would be bad.

Elements of an ideal education is a very interesting topic, but it warrants a thread of its own, if we're going to pursue it further.

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