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The Only Two Things The Majority of Women Want.

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Wrong. You mean to say coincidentally true...

DE-MON-STRAB-LY adv. - in an obvious and provable manner; "his documentary sources are demonstrably wrong"

or: "it is demonstrably true that many weightlifters fit the stereotype of being dumb and meat-headed." :D

Edited by eudaemonist
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Sounds to me like you would have picked Barbara Branden over Miss Rand too.
Sounds to me like you have no idea what you're talking about. Rand herself certainly had no problems picking young Nathaniel Branden over Frank. Who could know why? The only certainty is that love is sustained by more than just a high IQ and intellectual discourse.
Are you not aware of the meaning of the term "data point"? That's how I prefaced my comment...sheesh.
In that case it seems to me that your data point lies pretty far outside of the curve. I haven't met a single woman in my life that didn't actually care at all about what their ideal mate should look.
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"All generalizations are dangerous, even this one."-Dumas,,, But not nearly so dangerous as the one you brought up here.

lol...Moebius, man, if I were you, I would have backed out of this conversation as gracefully as possible about 40 posts ago so 2 points to you for intrepidity. Some free advice, however... Generalizations don't go over well as a general rule here and the one you chose to bring up is A)Just a personal perspective related mostly to your age. B ) Personally applicable to a significant number of active members on this board who are educated and formidable as well as over 30 And C) About a certain aspect of character which the fairer sex is generally very concerned with, without your reminding them. And whats worse, this is a discussion which you will never win. Even if you cite a study proving beyond all doubt that 35 year old women are 90% ugly and fat, you'll lose in every way that matters.

It reminds me of the chess scene from Star Wars..."I suggest a new strategy, Artoo...Let the wookie win"

*running and hiding now*

edit B ) when pressed to close together becomes :o Doh

Edited by aequalsa
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"All generalizations are dangerous, even this one."-Dumas,,, But not nearly so dangerous as the one you brought up here.

lol...Moebius, man, if I were you, I would have backed out of this conversation as gracefully as possible about 40 posts ago so 2 points to you for intrepidity. Some free advice, however... Generalizations don't go over well as a general rule here and the one you chose to bring up is A)Just a personal perspective related mostly to your age. :o Personally applicable to a significant number of active members on this board who are educated and formidable as well as over 30 And C) About a certain aspect of character which the fairer sex is generally very concerned with, without your reminding them. And whats worse, this is a discussion which you will never win. Even if you cite a study proving beyond all doubt that 35 year old women are 90% ugly and fat, you'll lose in every way that matters.

It reminds me of the chess scene from Star Wars..."I suggest a new strategy, Artoo...Let the wookie win"

*running and hiding now*

lol. You know, you're goddamn right.

eudaemonist, you are a beautiful 35 (or whatever) year old, and I am sure you'll find Mr. Right some day.

Sophia, I'll stop generalizing older (but not old!) women. Plus your sister is a hottie.

And all rational women are beautiful regardless of age... at least on the inside, and probably on the outside too.

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I haven't met a single woman in my life that didn't actually care at all about what their ideal mate should look.
Well here's #2. Heck, over the past year/year and a half I've kind of lost interest in the entire mate-procurement thing, period. I've got better things to worry about.*waaaraaaariirra* [makes wookie noise]
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Well here's #2. Heck, over the past year/year and a half I've kind of lost interest in the entire mate-procurement thing, period. I've got better things to worry about.*waaaraaaariirra* [makes wookie noise]

I could have swore in another thread you mentioned that you preferred men that were well-dressed and decent looking...

Anyway, giving up on mate-procurement doesn't really have anything to do with your aesthetic standards. It just means you stopped looking.

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I could have swore in another thread you mentioned that you preferred men that were well-dressed and decent looking...

Obviously, men who share my preferred qualities of, quote, "Integrity, independence, intelligence, introspection, enthusiasm, creativity, being comfortable in his own skin" are going to MUCH look different from those who don't.

But superficial, immature twaddle like "he has to be tall, with wavy dark hair, blue eyes, and a lantern jaw" never enters into my mind. A real, meaningful connection based on shared values and mutual respect and understanding can't be planned out ahead of time...for me it either happens or it doesn't; there's no forcing it. Rejecting my ideal mate and life partner because I was hung up on on meaningless variables like height, weight, age, or fashion sense would be a tragedy.

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Obviously, men who share my preferred qualities of, quote, "Integrity, independence, intelligence, introspection, enthusiasm, creativity, being comfortable in his own skin" are going to MUCH look different from those who don't.

Oh right. Is it sort of like how I don't care if my woman is skinny, but she needs to eat healthy and work out constantly (which apparently just happens to make her skinny)? But I mean, she wouldn't do it for superficial reasons like to look attractive, obviously, but does it because she values a healthy life style.

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A little. But would you choose to be around a thin woman who achieved her looks at the price of bulimia (i.e. evincing a mindblowingly flawed value system) over the self-confident woman who worked out/ate flawlessly who also had a documented thyroid problem?

Above all, a person's character shows in his or her eyes...that's the real way to tell if you have anything in common, in my opinion. Personally, I'll take an out-of-shape intellectual man with twinkling, lively eyes over a vapid pretty boy with a fixed, dull, bored look anyday. Someone could have the body of a Greek god, but if he were uninteresting, I still wouldn't have the slightest desire to be around him, much less have sex with him. Seriously, conventionally "good looking" stupid people leave me absolutely flat. Intelligence and character are the real turn-ons.

Edited by eudaemonist
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A little. But would you choose to be around a thin woman who achieved her looks at the price of bulimia (i.e. evincing a mindblowingly flawed value system) over the self-confident woman who worked out/ate flawlessly who also had a documented thyroid problem?

Well to be honest I wouldn't be attracted to either. But to be completely honest if I didn't know about the bulimia, I would probably be more attracted at first to the skinny girl over the confident woman who resembles a large mound of flesh.

Above all, a person's character shows in his or her eyes...that's the real way to tell if you have anything in common, in my opinion. Personally, I'll take an out-of-shape intellectual man with twinkling, lively eyes over a vapid pretty boy with a fixed, dull, bored look anyday. Someone could have the body of a Greek god, but if he were uninteresting, I still wouldn't have the slightest desire to be around him, much less have sex with him. Seriously, conventionally "good looking" stupid people leave me absolutely flat. Intelligence and character are the real turn-ons.

Good looks and intellect aren't mutually exclusive. But what I am saying is I would probably need a fair degree of both for me to be romantically attracted to the woman. If the girl was very intellectual with a heart of gold, but unfortunately looked like an ogre, I would probably be friends with her but never actually consider sharing a bed with her.

Most people who say that looks doesn't matter at all are generally kidding themselves. Maybe if you're already deeply in love with a woman and she had a horrible disfiguring accident, but usually not if you've just met them unless something very special happens or if you're one of those rare exceptions that I've never met.

By the way, being able to tell a person's character and whether you have something in common just from his or her eyes is something I find... very incredible. Must be some sort of extra-sensory power or something.

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By the way, being able to tell a person's character and whether you have something in common just from his or her eyes is something I find... very incredible. Must be some sort of extra-sensory power or something.

Not at all, when you're speaking with them in person. It really comes down to how perceptive you are about the discrete, unique qualities each individual possesses which point to what Ayn Rand called "sense of life".

Voice inflection, demeanor, posture, mannerisms, expression in the eyes: they're all speaking volumes about your psychology whether you realize it or not. (I've worked as an analyst at a DoD think tank on projects related to deception detection and criminal profiling, so I've been paid to quantify and make sense of the small things people reveal in spite of themselves that give them away.) If anyone is interested, I'll be glad to point you to some fascinating links.

Just as many people have "gaydar", anyone can develop "my-kind-of-person-dar" if they're perceptive and patient enough. The more experience you have dealing with people, the better you get.

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Oh right. Is it sort of like how I don't care if my woman is skinny, but she needs to eat healthy and work out constantly (which apparently just happens to make her skinny)? But I mean, she wouldn't do it for superficial reasons like to look attractive, obviously, but does it because she values a healthy life style.

Why is working out to be more attractive superficial? Doesn't that imply that there is really no objective value to be found in beauty? I think that for a rational person with self esteem it is extremely important to make sure that the beauty of your body properly matches your appraisal of your mind.

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Why is working out to be more attractive superficial?

It would depend on the reasoning behind working out. There's a difference between, say, an insecure person with low self-esteem feeling like he has to get as big and ripped as possible to get people to notice them, and say, a person that works out because he wants to tune his body into the best possible shape it is. However as far as self-esteem goes, it should be internal (as in, based on your mind) rather than based on external factors such as your body or looks. The same thing applies to things like plastic surgery or liposuction. But no, working out to look attractive can, but doesn't have to be, superficial.

Doesn't that imply that there is really no objective value to be found in beauty?

I think this really depends on the person place his or her objective values. I certainly don't think physical attractiveness is an essential value to a rational existence, but it definitely is very important value to many people (myself included to a certain extent).

I think that for a rational person with self esteem it is extremely important to make sure that the beauty of your body properly matches your appraisal of your mind.

I disagree, again, because physically attractiveness isn't really an essential value. If I was a brilliant inventor or scientist who spends all my waking time researching and creating, the fact that I don't work out or have a beer belly might not necessarily be all that important to me. My self esteem would be derived from my mind and my work, and not my physical appearance.

Personally speaking, I work out three times a week, but not so that I can look like a Greek statue but rather because I play sports. It's more important to me that I perform the way I want to on the basketball court than it is to look like a Calvin Klein model.

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  • 1 month later...
Basically, look clean and neat and have some fun.

My quote is from K-Mac's first post on the first page of this thread.

I'd just like to put this out there..

When people say "cmon let's just have some fun" or

"have some fun" isn't the operative term 'fun' used in such a way that's so vague, or could mean anything and therefore nothing that it really is a stupid, nonsensical floating abstraction?

Edited by Xijkujn
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When people say "cmon let's just have some fun" or "have some fun" isn't the operative term 'fun' used in such a way that's so vague, or could mean anything and therefore nothing that it really is a stupid, nonsensical floating abstraction?

And your point is? These are forum posts, people say things that aren't 100% perfectly descriptive, just as they say similar things in conversation. If it concerns you, take advantage of these moments of less-than-perfect clarity to ask people to be more specific or define what they mean. You'll help yourself *and* them by drawing their attention to places where, perhaps, their thinking could use some refinement.

Just as a tip, calling someone's method of expressing herself "stupid" is not exactly the best way to elicit value if that is what you are seeking.

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When people say "cmon let's just have some fun" or

"have some fun" isn't the operative term 'fun' used in such a way that's so vague, or could mean anything and therefore nothing that it really is a stupid, nonsensical floating abstraction?

I was trying to say lighten up, put a smile on your face, laugh, joke around and, well, have some fun. People who walk around taking everything too seriously all of the time can be a real downer, thus, making them seem quite unattractive. I think I understand why you were interested in this part of my post...apparently, it's advice you can use.

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When people say "cmon let's just have some fun" or "have some fun" isn't the operative term 'fun' used in such a way that's so vague, or could mean anything and therefore nothing that it really is a stupid, nonsensical floating abstraction?

Where in the world did you get that from her post? I'd have thought it was obvious from the context that she meant "enjoy yourself in your date's company." As it is, that's like saying that since concrete values like types of music, food, and activities vary so widely from person to person, the concept of value is therefore so vague that it's really a stupid, nonsensical floating abstraction. Different people might well find they have nothing in common as fun (one woman might find the relaxed company of self-secure men fun, while someone else might well find logic-chopping in the service of alpha-male doggy-macho one-upmanship the height of fun), but that doesn't mean the concept's vague or a floating abstraction, it means it depends crucially upon individual values. Yeesh.

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I said when people (in general) say "cmon let's have some fun" they mean the informal fun, whimsical fun. I just heard it on the TV just then, I think it's the Oscars and someone was interviewed and said "I just don't have any fun anymore".

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source

fun /fʌn/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, funned, fun·ning, adjective

–noun

1. something that provides mirth or amusement: A picnic would be fun.

2. enjoyment or playfulness: She's full of fun.

–verb (used without object), verb (used with object)

3. Informal. joke; kid.

–adjective

4. Informal. of or pertaining to fun, esp. to social fun: a fun thing to do; really a fun person.

5. Informal. whimsical: flamboyant: The fashions this year are definitely on the fun side.

In my view, number 5 is by far the most common use of the term ''fun".

I'm just putting this out there, I'm not attacking anyone.

Yeesh.

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Well to be honest I wouldn't be attracted to either. But to be completely honest if I didn't know about the bulimia,

Wait... does your second sentence mean that you weren't completely honest in your first sentence? B)

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In my view, number 5 is by far the most common use of the term ''fun".

I'm just putting this out there, I'm not attacking anyone.

Yeesh.

I thought you said my use of the term "fun" was, "a stupid, nonsensical floating abstraction?" Now you seem to be defining fun for us. Why "put something out there" if it has no point and comes across as insulting? In general, people post to this website when they feel they have something of worth to contribute or questions to ask. If you're just "putting out there" insults and obvious definitions, I am confused as to your motive.

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