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Is making fun of those robots and making them look like kids really the best way one can show that those robots are benevolent?

Such humor would show them as foolish, sure, but benevolence is something different.

I never said anything about making fun of them. I am talking about funny moments with them in it. The two are quite different. I would make fun of neither giant robots nor dragons, especially the latter.

Even stronger case is the moment when they refuse to even rescue their own autobot from humans because they couldn't do it without harming humans.

Yeah, well that was wrong of them.

I could see joke be more effective for some dumb audience, though, but even so, one shouldn't make the make art for the lowest of your audience.

I compltely agree. In fact with my books I am aiming for what I consider to be the highest audience.

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My point is, I went into it expecting an action movie, which means the bar isn't very high, and came out of it having gotten exactly what I expected. The movies you listed are not standard fare for actions movies, they are the exception. If you judge the action genre by the exception, I would expect you are going to be disappointed often. While Transformer didn't (perhaps) go over the "exception" bar, it was far better than many, many action flicks I've seen.

I don't judge movies according to "exceptions". I have the more or less the same standard regardless of the movie I am seeing. And yeah, Transformers didn't measure up to the better ones, but it is certainly not the worst. Graphically it looks like this:

Completely terrible movies <----------------------------- Transformers -------------------------------------------> "Exceptions"

Hence why I thought Transformers was mediocre.

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I thought this movie was AWESOME! I was able to totally suspend my disbelief to sit back and enjoy the most incredible action sequences I've ever witnessed. The rest of the movie provided enough support, for me, for those sequences.

The parents were funny, the girl was hot, the boy was amusing. There was very little laughable dialogue, and only one plot element I can recall wasn't tied up, but there was almost no plot, so that didn't matter to me much. A perk was a line like, "The humans deserve to decide their own fate," in response to, "The humans are weak and you shouldn't help them."

But, the best aspects of this movie are the visuals and the action! I went in expecting exactly what I got, and I loved it.

Edited by JASKN
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I thought it was worth seeing as a Summer action movie. However, I felt like the movie had a real lack of focus. Was it a kids movie? A movie aimed at annoying 12 year olds? An action movie enjoyable by all ages? At different times it seemed like all of these. It had good moments, and then the thin plot and generally poor dialogue dragged it down.

When it was focusing on the soldier in Qatar, I thought the acting and writing had real potential. Then when it switched to awkward masturbation jokes I changed my mind quickly.

I also thought that the hacker character was given a lot of screen time and added absolutely nothing to the movie. Why not just have the Australian girl figure things out? Especially if this could have been done in some way other than finding pictures in a visual representation of a sound.

Also, why did they bother to claim that a sound hacked their network in the first place? Who thought that was realistic? Why not just say a computer program?

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I took my kid to see this movie today and we both thought it was great. Shia LaBeouf (Sam) with his comedic timing was awesome in this role. I found myself laughing, the crowd was cheering, my kid was clapping. What else do you want from a summer action flick?

Edited by ~Sophia~
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Also, why did they bother to claim that a sound hacked their network in the first place? Who thought that was realistic?

I did. All modems work by turning data into signals that telephonic systems convert to their own formats based on expected sound patterns. A whopping amount of research on sound representation went into this and still does.

JJM

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I took my kid to see this movie today and we both thought it was great. Shia LaBeouf (Sam) with his comedic timing was awesome in this role. I found myself laughing, the crowd was cheering, my kid was clapping. What else do you want from a summer action flick?

How about an ounce of intelligent writing.

The only thing more painful than seeing this movie is seeing anyone with low enough standards to not hate it. Let's try and raise our standards people.

Edited by Seeker
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How about an ounce of intelligent writing.

When I want to experience intelligent writing I don't go to the movies. I certainly don't expect a philosophy lesson from an action movie. I expect to be entratained and I was.

The only thing more painful than seeing this movie is seeing anyone with low enough standards to not hate it. Let's try and raise our standards people.

I don't give a rat's ass about your judgment of my standards.

Edited by ~Sophia~
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There's no reason to jump into insults and retorts.

Seeker, everyone in this thread has given good reason for their judgments of this movie. The main argument against your "standards" comment is that yours is not the only standard. My standard for this movie was: "I want good action with a story that isn't too bad." I got it, and then some! Could the movie have been a masterpiece with better writing, a plot and an excellent theme? Yes! But it has worth as it was made for other reasons.

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How about an ounce of intelligent writing.

The only thing more painful than seeing this movie is seeing anyone with low enough standards to not hate it. Let's try and raise our standards people.

This is uncalled for. You worry about your own standards and leave the insults out of this thread.

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Yeah, well that was wrong of them.

Maybe: you have to weigh a number of factors in a situation like that. Did they have reason to believe that the humans would kill Bumblebee? The only result of the Autobots attempting to rescue Bumblebee at that point would be to start a full-scale battle between them and the humans. They would eventually be beaten by the humans when they finally got organized and they would fail their mission.

Abandoning Bumblebee was a decision I would have made if I were in charge at that point, with the caveat that after the immediate, emergency mission was completed I would go and get him and nothing would stand in my way. If humans aren't willing to turn over my buddy when I've just saved their planet, screw 'em.

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Maybe: you have to weigh a number of factors in a situation like that. Did they have reason to believe that the humans would kill Bumblebee? The only result of the Autobots attempting to rescue Bumblebee at that point would be to start a full-scale battle between them and the humans. They would eventually be beaten by the humans when they finally got organized and they would fail their mission.

Oh, and so they should let them take away B umblee Bee's freedom? I would sa, no, not unless he done something to deserve that, which I would highly doubt he did.

Abandoning Bumblebee was a decision I would have made if I were in charge at that point, with the caveat that after the immediate, emergency mission was completed I would go and get him and nothing would stand in my way. If humans aren't willing to turn over my buddy when I've just saved their planet, screw 'em.

That sounds a lot to me like valuing the lives of people you don't know (the humans) over someone you know and care about (Bumblebee). For me my friend would come before saving their planet. I would save my friend and then save the planet with the caveat that I would have to be certain most of the humans would not take away his freedom the way Section7 did. I would only save the humans if I was sure Section 7 was the exception not the norm. If they were i would not bother saving them as I would not see them worthy of my effort, as freedom-stealers don't deserve my risking myself and those under my command to save them.

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I would save my friend and then save the planet

No, you would start a huge fight, kill all your allies, and doom your friend anyway. This is why it's important to prioritize. It's not a "needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" it's that you have to take care of the most pressing emergency first. "We don't leave our people in there" sounds great until you realize it means killing your entire unit pointlessly and failing to accomplish the mission OR the rescue of your friend.

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No, you would start a huge fight, kill all your allies, and doom your friend anyway. This is why it's important to prioritize. It's not a "needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" it's that you have to take care of the most pressing emergency first. "We don't leave our people in there" sounds great until you realize it means killing your entire unit pointlessly and failing to accomplish the mission OR the rescue of your friend.

If I could save him I would do so and then leave. If I could not I would leave. A planet that takes away the freedom of my friend is not worh saving.

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If I could save him I would do so and then leave. If I could not I would leave. A planet that takes away the freedom of my friend is not worh saving.

So you would doom the many for the actions of the few? And also, what if

by saving the planet you saved the friend, which is what happened in this movie?

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So you would doom the many for the actions of the few?

Ah, no, I was talking about if the majority were like that, so I would not be dooming the many for the actions of the few, I would be daming the many for the actions of the many.

And also, what if

by saving the planet you saved the friend, which is what happened in this movie?

Then, I would sae the planet but only to save my friend and not to save the people that took away his freedom.

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I saw it at the drive in, and by the ticket booth, my friends and I decided it was time to put the top down. These little kids were in a truck bed in line next to us. When the kid saw my top coming down he freaked out and said, "Oh my god, that is the coolest thing ever, no fair!" My friend said, "Yep, transformers really do exist!" :P I really enjoyed the movie. If for no other reason I liked it because of Shia Lebeauf. He is just so dang funny. "What would Jesus do?" :lol:

I thought it was trying to make a statement about Iraq. Basically what the autobots were saying is that although humans were not as technically advanced, they were in trouble so the autobots should help them. The same statement could be made by a pro-war person talking about Iraqis.

Edited by kufa
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*sigh*

I'll try to address a lot of points in one swope here.

For starters, differences in opinions don't mean differences in philosophy or anything, it's also nothing personal.

Everyone has different expectations and standards for different things. You can get into the gritty details all you want, but it needs to be relevant for what your judging.

I liked this movie so much because all of the movies i've seen this summer all the "OMG HUEG BLUCKBOSTERS!!!" have been disappointing to me. There are just things I can't stand in movies, that make me never want to see them again, that make them boring.

Also, i'm a huge dork. Not one of those kind that collect dones of stuff, but I really read into alot of series and characters. So when I see a movie based off of something else I have to add this new factor in for judging.

There is another point. Some of you guys say this doesn't mean standards and expectations, but I need to ask what is that based off of?

RationalBiker said it best and i'm glad he did before I exploded about this --

I'm kinda surprised that anybody went to see Transformers expecting a deep, philosophical movie portraying all the characters as one might find them in an Ayn Rand novel. I saw the cartoons when they were on and that would not have been a realistic expectation. This was a remake, albeit one that was matured up a bit, of a very simplistic kid's saturday morning cartoon.

Transformers was intended as an action movie and that's what it was. Thin on plot, lots of action. That's about it.

Yeah, you don't come in expecting much. I come in expecting to hate every movie I see, because that's usually been the case most of the movies i've seen. But the thing is, the cartoon, the original cartoon, was actually a very good show.

I remeber when I went to church as a kid and they asked me "Who do you moral role model" they wanted you to say God or Jesus I said "Optimus Prime" then they got all mad and asked why and I said "Because he stands up to the bad guys"

So, naturally, I was emotionally attached to this movie, and I was kind of depressed because I was expecting what everyone already said here; cool effects with no plot to speak off. But, for me, that wasn't what I got. I actually thought that the plot was a lot better then most every single movie i've seen to date. I enjoyed the characters, but I could of done with a little more of some and less of others (actually, I would of been fine with just Sam, the soilder and the hacker girl, got out Section 7...at least that one main guy.)

The point i'm making is that, each of these judging criteria have things there are based off of. The dialogue in this movie was easy actually enganging, I found myself saying "Yeah, i'd say about the same thing in this situation" and yeah, there was a few cheesy moments, but that's where my judging standards come in.

The parts I enjoyed were greater then the parts I hated

A lot greater, which is why I liked it so much.

Also, The parts that they got right from the comic were greater then the parts they messed up on, which in this case, the didn't mess up on alot, or anything at all really.

So, combining these two ratios, it comes out positive. When I watched Spider-Man 3, it came out way way negative, so I hated it and thought I'd hate movies forever until Transformers came and redeemed it for me.

That's how I judge movies and where my standards are set. But one thing that bothers me about people here, what's so bad about masturbation jokes and why is it "low" for someone to think they are funny? You take them on a case by case basis and the joke(s) in this movie where done well and with class.

I don't see what the problem is.

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Yeah, you don't come in expecting much.

Yes, that's right. That is why I tend not to enjoy action movies: I don't expect much of a plot and get exactly that. I am interested only in movies with a plot, so when i get what i expect from an action movie, I am getting the boredom i expect, so I don't like the movie. It is only when an exception comes along that I like action movies. It seems to me from some things that have been said that this movie is exactly what I expected: the Optimus Prime sounds aultrustic (see my comments about Bumbleebee and Section 7). Anyway, my point is that sadly, whay could of been a very good movie seems like the exact tripe I was expecting.

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A planet that takes away the freedom of my friend is not worh saving.

Fortunately for the movie, this is not the case. The "planet" didn't take his friend away, a few members of the one of it's governments did. Despite that, other members of the planet showed "promise" of being reasonable beings to deal with.

Anyway, my point is that sadly, whay could of been a very good movie seems like the exact tripe I was expecting.

But it was a very good movie. It's a shame you aren't judging it for yourself.

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Yes, that's right. That is why I tend not to enjoy action movies: I don't expect much of a plot and get exactly that. I am interested only in movies with a plot, so when i get what i expect from an action movie, I am getting the boredom i expect, so I don't like the movie. It is only when an exception comes along that I like action movies. It seems to me from some things that have been said that this movie is exactly what I expected: the Optimus Prime sounds aultrustic (see my comments about Bumbleebee and Section 7). Anyway, my point is that sadly, whay could of been a very good movie seems like the exact tripe I was expecting.

You seem to have a lot of opinions about a movie you haven't even seen...

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Fortunately for the movie, this is not the case. The "planet" didn't take his friend away, a few members of the one of it's governments did. Despite that, other members of the planet showed "promise" of being reasonable beings to deal with.
I never said it did in the movie. I said if it happened in a situation I was in, not the situation of the movie.

But it was a very good movie. It's a shame you aren't judging it for yourself.
1) I don't consider a movie with an altruistic main hero a good movie, and 2) I am judging it for myself. I am judging Optimus Prime's altruism for myself.

You seem to have a lot of opinions about a movie you haven't even seen...
Actually I have just one: I don't like movies with altruistic main characters, therefore since Optimus Prime's altruism, I will not like the movie. Edited by DragonMaci
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The focus of this movie was not altruism, but was instead robots kicking ass!

I understand getting a feel for a movie to decide whether you want to spend (in this case almost three) hours watching it, but if you're staying away because you don't want to be subjected to altruism propaganda, you're staying away for a made-up reason. A few lines and a shaky plot does not propaganda make!

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I am judging it for myself. I am judging Optimus Prime's altruism for myself.

What evidence did you use to arrive at the conclusion that Optimus Prime was altruistic? Was it the TV show you never saw? The movie you never watched? Or was it the made-up scenario in which not just Section 7, but the whole planet was responsible for kidnapping Bumble-Bee? Because, guess what, Optimus Prime is not in fact altruistic. He is responsible, and therefore will do everything in his power to make sure that the humans don't suffer for things they didn't do. But, of course, if you saw the movie, you could judge this for yourself. If you don't want to see the movie, that's all right, there are tons of movies I never get around to seeing, but don't make up a baseless reason not to do so.

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