What order should the O'ism books be read in?

[Michelangelo]

There are so many books written by Ayn Rand and Leanord Peikoff, that I'm not sure where to start. What books would you Objectivists feel is appropriate to begin with?

Thanks.

[DavidV]

You may find URL helpful:

http://www.rationalview.homestead.com/Reco...dedReading.html

[Michelangelo]

It looks like a heavy amount of reading. Are notes needed or should any other steps be taken through the process; to insure an understanding of Objectivism?

Normally in school there would be tests, essays, etc. That's why I ask.

[ian]

Normally in school there would be tests, essays, etc.  That's why I ask.

There are taped lectures available at aynrandbookstore.com

[oldsalt]

I would begin where she began, with her fiction. Her two most important novels were The Fountainhead, and Atlas Shrugged. If, after reading those, you are stimulated to go into the more formal aspects of Objectivism, I would begin with Objectivism: The Philosophy of Ayn Rand, by Dr. Peikoff, and An Introduction to Objectivist Epistomology. OPAR has a study guide which I found helpful. Just about everything else stems from those books and flesh out the philosophy (though there is brilliant original work by Objectivist philosophers).

[dondigitalia]

After reading her fiction, I advise that you start with Metaphysics & Epsitemology, then move to ethics, then politics, the aesthetics.

Rand's books on the subjects are (in the order listed above): Inroduction to Objectivist Epistemology, The Virtue of Selfishness, Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal, The New Left: The Industrial Revolution, and The Romantic Manifesto.

You may also find it helpful to read the relevant chapters of OPAR as you work your way through Rand's books.

[danielshrugged]

I suggest starting with Anthem and Philosophy: Who Needs It. After that, the most important books are The Fountainhead, Atlas Shrugged, Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology, and Peikoff's Objectivism: The Philosophy of Ayn Rand.

[MinorityOfOne]

Don, I disagree. I think the motivation behind your suggestion is the idea that since metaphysics & epistemology precede the other branches of philosophy hierarchically, one needs to study them before one can study the other branches profitably. I don't think that's entirely true, and I definitely don't think it's ideal for someone just starting to read about Objectivism to think they have to master epistemology before reading anything in ethics.

Philosophy is inductive, so you can pretty much start reading about any branch you like. You've already got a great deal of the knowledge required to critically evaluate Rand's philosophy. It's not like studying physics, where one really has to study it in a particular order. In philosophy, you can skip around. You'll find that it's so interconnected that you end up studying everything, anyway.

There's a more important issue here, though. Philosophy should not be studied as a duty, but rather, one should read it with an eye to its implications for oneself and one's life. How does that cash out in terms of study method? Start with what interests you.

You might have a preexisting interest in ethics or art. I say go for it! Don't worry about needing a background in epistemology to understand them. You don't. You'll understand them better once you've read some epistemology, and some things will be hard to understand without knowing epistemology, but again, the last thing you want to do is drudge through Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology or Peikoff's Objectivism: The Philosophy of Ayn Rand as a duty. You'll probably find yourself interested in other branches eventually anyway.

One of the nice things about philosophy is that gaining knowledge about one thing will increase your knowledge of other things, provided that you have an active mind and put some effort toward integrating your thoughts. So there's no need to start in any one particular place. Read whatever interests you, and follow your interests from there. You may eventually find that a more structured, hierarchical study will fulfill your intellectual needs best; when that happens, go with that. For now, I'd suggest that if you haven't read Rand's fiction, pick up The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged. They're the most exciting books of all, and I bet when you're done with them you'll have a really good idea of which of her non-fiction books you'll find most interesting.

[dondigitalia]

I wasn't meaning to say that one HAS to study Metaphysics & Epistemology first. If one is looking for a logical agenda, however, I think that's it.

I agree - start with whatever interests you most. If you have no preference and just want to learn about it all, do it in the order that makes the most sense. I think the order I provided does.

I personally, did not follow that "lesson plan." I did start with epistemology (because I think it's the most fascinating part of Objectivism), but then moved straight to Aesthetics (because, as a graphic designer, it was of particular interest to me).

If you're looking to see Objectivism concretized (which, IMO, is the best way to familiarize yourself with the philosophy as a whole), definitely begin with Rand's fiction. Anthem can be read in a couple of hours. Atlas Shrugged may take you a couple of months. It doesn't really matter where you begin, but by all means, BEGIN!

[oldsalt]

You can get the bare bones of Objectivism by reading Atlas Shrugged. Galt's speech lays it out nicely. Atlas also has other parts that speak to particular subjects which I haven't read elsewhere. Francisco's speech on the ethics of money (wealth) comes readily to mind. It is the best refutation of some 2500 years of conventional wisdom on the subject. The Fountainhead explains Objectivism's perspective on individualism, collectivism, and second-handedness. Both novels do this while giving you a brilliant story!

[dondigitalia]

Both novels do this while giving you a brilliant story!

And that's an understatement!

Rand's mastery of the novel is something rarely encountered in modern literature.

[Betsy]

There's a more important issue here, though.  Philosophy should not be studied as a duty, but rather, one should read it with an eye to its implications for oneself and one's life. 

[...]

One of the nice things about philosophy is that gaining knowledge about one thing will increase your knowledge of other things, provided that you have an active mind and put some effort toward integrating your thoughts.  So there's no need to start in any one particular place.  Read whatever interests you, and follow your interests from there.

I agree with everything Matt said and he said it so well that I can't improve on it. All I can do is agree and add something more in support.

Ayn Rand did not develop nor present her philosophy in hierarchical order. She developed it with an eye to its implications for herself and her life. She started with a fictional hero at the age of ten and decided to be a writer. At the age of 13, the events of the Russian Revolution led to an interest in politics and, from that, the ethical principles of altruism underlying collectivism. From there she skipped around a lot and didn't get to writing about epistemology until rather late in life.

All through her life she advocated the Spiral Theory of Knowledge, a process by which an active-minded person continually gains new knowledge and integrates it with what he already knows.

So read what interests you and make the most of it in your own life. What's good enough for Ayn Rand is good enough for you.

[kuuipo]

Hi, I know the original question was posted in relation to personal reading enjoyment by a member.

My question is where do I start with assigning books for my son to read. I homeschool my son, he just turned 14, and this is my first year doing this. I am wondering if someone could point me to a good History book for him, one that is as free as possible of the pro-socialist slant that is so prevalent these days. I was trying to get him to read books by Henty etc. to learn history through the stories told, but that just doesn't seem to be cutting it. I am also wondering if anyone knows of good books appropriate for his age and low reading level purely for reading. My wish is that they are written by people who are Objectivists or have a mind bend in that direction. I am thinking about having him read 'Wizard's First Rule' as just a fun book. I absolutely love Terry Goodkind's series. I was even more thrilled when I found that he really was an Objectivist (or at least thinks along those lines). Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you,

Lyn

[JRoberts]

So read what interests you and make the most of it in your own life. What's good enough for Ayn Rand is good enough for you.

I agree with everything that Betsy said . And I would like to add on to her as well.

The first question you should ask yourself is, "What am I in the mood for? What sounds enjoyable to me? Fiction or non-fiction?"

Once you figure that out, then you can start investigating the different areas-and looking at the advice that you have received so far.

It seems that a few people I have met tend to think that the only way to understand the philosophy is to read the non-fiction, and yet they'd rather read fiction than non-fiction. But this is certainly (and thankfully!) not the case! All of Mrs. Rand's fiction is full of philosophy, as well as many other enjoyable things.

Just be honest with yourself . Either way is a good way.

[JRoberts]

Hi, I know the original question was posted in relation to personal reading enjoyment by a member.

My question is where do I start with assigning books for my son to read. I homeschool my son, he just turned 14, and this is my first year doing this. I am wondering if someone could point me to a good History book for him, one that is as free as possible of the pro-socialist slant that is so prevalent these days. I was trying to get him to read books by Henty etc. to learn history through the stories told, but that just doesn't seem to be cutting it. I am also wondering if anyone knows of good books appropriate for his age and low reading level purely for reading. My wish is that they are written by people who are Objectivists or have a mind bend in that direction. I am thinking about having him read 'Wizard's First Rule' as just a fun book. I absolutely love Terry Goodkind's series. I was even more thrilled when I found that he really was an Objectivist (or at least thinks along those lines). Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you,

Lyn

Hi Lyn,

Ayn Rand is pretty deep. I started reading her at a young age-and regret that I had done so. A lot of the deeper implications of her novels were not grasped by me because I simply wasn't mature enough. Even "Anthem", though not as dense as "The Fountainhead" or "Atlas Shrugged", is a pretty dense novel and deals with some tough issues that young people simply cannot comprehend.

To me, the best way to introduce him to Objectivism is to find fiction that will interest him; fiction that has some themes similar to the Objectivist Philosophy. Harry Potter comes to mind (if he hasn't already read them). There are many issues that may be covered within those novels-and I'm sure that he would retain what he read and what he learned in Harry Potter (written for children) much more than what he would read from Ayn Rand (written for adults).

Providing a basis for him at his age now will strengthen his understanding of Objectivism when he gains the maturity to actually read the works.

As for History, I would say that it totally depends upon you and what are most familiar with. Children ask many questions-and it's best if you were prepared for the (hopeful) onslaught . Would you mind telling me in which area of history you are most learned?

That issue aside, I would say that now is a perfect time to begin studying Classical History. There are many areas that you could cover in the Classical World that will greatly benefit his life. A study of Classical History allows him later on to branch into Primary History (first-hand accounts), Philosophy, Poetry, Theatre, etc. and will allow him to understand where Objectivism itself comes from, as well as to understand the basis for our Western Civilization.

Good luck, and welcome to the boards .

[Daughter of Time]

kuippo - You may want to go to this link for some suggestions of interesting books for home schooling. There are also some links from there to helpful sites.

http://strongbrains.com/

Also, for American history, an excellent book written in the 19th Century but recently reprinted is is Edward Eggleston's "A History of the United States and Its People." It was a standard high school text in its day and far surpasses any of the "politically correct" nonsense passing for textbooks today. Here is a link to the publisher's web page which describes the book more fully.

http://www.lcbcbooks.com/historyoftheus.htm

If you visit the Ayn Rand Bookstore site you can find there some excellent lecture tapes about home-schooling, education, and parenting. Here is a link to a page with some education related tapes. Take a look at the ones by Lisa VanDamme in particular.

http://www.aynrandbookstore2.com/store/products.asp?dept=51

[AwakeAndFree]

Don, I disagree.  I think the motivation behind your suggestion is the idea that since metaphysics & epistemology precede the other branches of philosophy hierarchically, one needs to study them before one can study the other branches profitably.  I don't think that's entirely true, and I definitely don't think it's ideal for someone just starting to read about Objectivism to think they have to master epistemology before reading anything in ethics.

Philosophy is inductive, so you can pretty much start reading about any branch you like.  You've already got a great deal of the knowledge required to critically evaluate Rand's philosophy.  It's not like studying physics, where one really has to study it in a particular order.  In philosophy, you can skip around.  You'll find that it's so interconnected that you end up studying everything, anyway.

There's a more important issue here, though.  Philosophy should not be studied as a duty, but rather, one should read it with an eye to its implications for oneself and one's life.  How does that cash out in terms of study method?  Start with what interests you.

You might have a preexisting interest in ethics or art.  I say go for it!  Don't worry about needing a background in epistemology to understand them.  You don't.  You'll understand them better once you've read some epistemology, and some things will be hard to understand without knowing epistemology, but again, the last thing you want to do is drudge through Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology or Peikoff's Objectivism: The Philosophy of Ayn Rand as a duty.  You'll probably find yourself interested in other branches eventually anyway.

One of the nice things about philosophy is that gaining knowledge about one thing will increase your knowledge of other things, provided that you have an active mind and put some effort toward integrating your thoughts.  So there's no need to start in any one particular place.  Read whatever interests you, and follow your interests from there.  You may eventually find that a more structured, hierarchical study will fulfill your intellectual needs best; when that happens, go with that.  For now, I'd suggest that if you haven't read Rand's fiction, pick up The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged.  They're the most exciting books of all, and I bet when you're done with them you'll have a really good idea of which of her non-fiction books you'll find most interesting.

Go Matt! I was about to say the same thing here.

The right order to start with is: whatever interests you the most, read first!

I find that most people are drawn to the fiction first, then the non-fiction. But I personally actually started with a complete overview of Rand's philosophy - and only after already understanding many aspects of the philosophy did I decide to read the fiction works.

After reading all of her fiction, I tapped my interests as I went along: ethics, politics, art... It never occured to me to ask anyone about the "right order" of things. Every article, every story, is self-sufficient and valuable in its own right. The integration can occur once all the parts are in place.

[Daughter of Time]

kuuipo - You may want to go to this link for some suggestions of interesting books for home schooling. There are also some links from there to helpful sites.

http://strongbrains.com/

Also, for American history, an excellent book written in the 19th Century but recently reprinted is is Edward Eggleston's "A History of the United States and Its People." It was a standard high school text in its day and far surpasses any of the "politically correct" nonsense passing for textbooks today. Here is a link to the publisher's web page which describes the book more fully.

http://www.lcbcbooks.com/historyoftheus.htm

If you visit the Ayn Rand Bookstore site you can find there some excellent lecture tapes about home-schooling, education, and parenting. Here is a link to a page with some education related tapes. Take a look at the ones by Lisa VanDamme in particular.

http://www.aynrandbookstore2.com/store/products.asp?dept=51

edited by me to correct spelling of kuuipo's name

[source]

There are so many books written by Ayn Rand and Leanord Peikoff, that I'm not sure where to start.  What books would you Objectivists feel is appropriate to begin with?

Objectivism is like science. I'll take physics for an example. You are amazed by its discoveries - say the law of gravity and what consequences it has on the planets and the stars, the laws of optics, general relativity, quantuum theory, etc. Then you want to learn something, but you can't just barge into the field anywhere. You can't start learning physics from quantuum theory because you won't understand anything - especially not the equations.

In this way, Objectivism is very similar. You are amazed by what you see in The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged - its practical application - and then you want to learn it. You can't just come and pick up a book and say that now you're studying Objectivism. Objectivism, like the natural sciences, has its beginning, i.e. its basis which you should grasp in order to understand the more complex issues. My post in another thread touched this issue somewhat.

For this reason, I always recommend Leonard Peikoff's "Objectivism: The Philosophy of Ayn Rand" to beginners in Objectivism who have gained interest into it by reading The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged. After reading and understanding that, you can read what you wish, because you'll know which book you should pick up next.

[BurgessLau]

If you are a new student of Objectivism and your guide is your personal interest -- with which I agree -- then the most important book you can work with is The Ayn Rand Lexicon.

Each entry contains excerpts from Ayn Rand's vast writings. The excerpts are arranged in hierarchical order, with the basic concepts, usually a definition, first. Each excerpt contains the location in Ayn Rand's writings, so you can go on for further reading in that area, if you choose.

Example entries, picked at random, are: Altruism; Certainty; Ecology/Environmental Movement; Middle Class; Republic; Sex; and Whims.

I use my copy daily, on average.

[SnowDog]

Note that "The Ayn Rand Reader" was designed as an introduction for new readers.

Craig

[ChristopherSchlegel]

My question is where do I start with assigning books for my son to read. I homeschool my son, he just turned 14, and this is my first year doing this.

My wife & I intend to homeschool our son also. He is only 2 so the formal education hasn't really begun yet (although, of course, we always make sure to give him many opportunities to learn while he plays right now).

Just a thought on the literature angle that hasn't been mentioned yet. When I was a kid I loved the Greek myths. My grandfather got me a book on all the major players & episodes that was beautifully illustrated (also a similar volume of Aesop's fables). Looking back I think this book had a very important, priceless impact on me & being able to understand/appreciate the concept of heroic.

BTW, when I read Atlas Shrugged in my early 20s I understood the analogy & was able to guess the reference early on!

I wish you the best in your efforts with your son.

That issue aside, I would say that now is a perfect time to begin studying Classical History.

Wow. That's a great suggestion! I also remember my father & grandfather always talking about history. & encouraging me to know/read about it also. As a consequence, even though I don't have any great passion for it, I do understand a great deal about the general history of man & civilization.

Christopher Schlegel

[BurgessLau]

My wife & I intend to homeschool our son also.

For anyone considering texts for kids, you might try subscribing to the Rational Parenting List. I recall the email address as being [email protected] but I am not certain. Ask for subscription information. I recall the fee is $40US. The list is well moderated. The owner is Susan (?) Crawford, I believe.

If these vague leads don't work, then subscribe to Betsy Speicher's CyberNet email newsletter. I am confident you can find the information you are looking for through one of Betsy's regular columns and website listings if you can't find it through the email address I gave for the Rational Parenting List.

[Edited to correct a name.]

Edited January 25, 2005 by BurgessLau

[Toolboxnj]

My question is where do I start with assigning books for my son to read. I homeschool my son, he just turned 14, and this is my first year doing this. I am wondering if someone could point me to a good History book for him, one that is as free as possible of the pro-socialist slant that is so prevalent these days.

Since you are home schooling, it appears that you value you son and this is a great start. More parents must be involved with their children’s' education as I hope to be when I have children.

On history, in Dr. Thomas Woods' The Politically Incorrect Guide to American History may not be a "textbook" of sorts, but has MANY great suggestions for "serious" history books in its "A Book You're Not Supposed to Read" sections in the margin. Although I haven't investigated all of them, I do know some of the authors and they would express a pro-capitalist point of view.

If your son is interested in Objectivism, and reads on a higher level, I would recommend the less abstract Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal or The Voice of Reason collection of essays. It's also imperative that the Lexicon is handy to deal with definitions that come up as the reading progresses.

From experience, do not buy the Kenneth Davis "Don't Know Much About History" because I was thoroughly disappointed with that. Certainly, if you are looking for military history Victor Davis Hanson is a excellent historian and well-read in Objectivist spheres.

[ChristopherSchlegel]

For anyone considering texts for kids, you might try subscribing to the Rational Parenting List.

Found it:

Rational Parent Homepage

You were correct about the name & mail ad.

Thanks for the great info!